Is Pickles winning the “love-bombing” war?
September 24th, 2009
Can Pickles entice Lib Dems into voting Tory?
This week I’ve been on holiday in Hadrian’s Wall country in Northumberland away from a fast internet connection so I have been unable to catch up on what seems to have been the political broadcasting highlight - the encounter on the Today programme between Tory Chairman, Eric Pickles, and the prominent Lib Dem, Chris Huhne.
See this from Harry Phibbs in the Guardian for the details and a description of Chris Huhne’s response.
“….While Pickles called Huhne “charming”, Huhne sprayed back abuse, ranging from smearing Latvian MEPs as Nazi sympathisers to complaining about David Cameron having his papers driven for him in a car while he went ahead on a bike.
Huhne’s remarks are mild compared to comments he was planning to make about William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary. Apparently Huhne wanted to describe Hague as “a skinhead who has gone round the beer cellars of Europe and come up with the dregs”.
During the past two Lib Dem leadership contests I was a strong backer of Huhne and until the last week or so thought that he had one of the best approaches for dealing with the Cameron affect and the Tory surge. These comments suggest that he has got it badly wrong.
For the first rule of political campaigning is that you only launch attacks like this if it’s going to chime with the audience you are aiming at. That’s Politics 101. This might go down well with conference delegates but not the wider group of Lib Dem voters.
Both Huhne and Pickles ought to look at the detail from this week’s Guardian ICM poll. Not only did it show that 23% of 2005 Lib Dem voters had now switched to the Tories but that a significant chunk of current supporters might also move.
These are the people Pickles is aiming at and Huhne’s over the top approach might just encourage them.
Mike Smithson
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Morning all!
Great pictures.
Scary picture of Huhne, do we need 3 of them
?
The short answer to the question is yes, for fairly obvious reasons.
On the other hand, as someone astutely noticed on one of the threads yesterday, attacking individual Tories below the belt is a great way to pick up disgruntled Labour core.
Maybe the Lib Dem strategists are onto something here after all.
What’s going on with Chris Huhne’s eyes? It looks like someone has shown him Martin Day’s websites
Has that picture of Pickles been stretched or not? :p
Pickles is a decent guy & seems genuine. If anyone can entice voters then he can.
I’m trying to work out whether that picture of Pickles is a “Big Brother is Watching You” poster, or more of a “Open Your Heart to Jesus”.
5.wibbler, the Labour core vote won’t go Libdem, they will stick with Labour or refuse to vote at all. And I am sure that Labour’s efforts to run a highly negative attack campaign against the Tories will appeal far more. Their last PPB was carefully aimed at that core market.
I am still pretty surprised at bad a Conference the Libdems had, echoe’s of previous Conservatives ones under Cameron’s predecessors spring to mind. Its not even a case of the leadership being lead by the party rather than the other way around. This was like a dysfunctional coalition where the right hand didn’t know what the left one was doing.
There whole strategy is wrong, wrong, wrong. They are alienating those that have voted Libdem in the recent past, and might have been tempted to do so again, alienating rather than love bombing Tory voters in seats where their vote could be tactically squeezed. And for what? The Labour core vote and possible a few Labour defections? This may all be about positioning after the next GE, but sticking with the same loyalties and enemies when the electorate are at odds with your choice seems nuts to me. You damage youself more, and a much smaller and weaker Libdem party after a GE has a poor bargaining position.
This is like ground hog day, they are making the same mistakes that Scottish Labour did back in 2007, and they end up suffering more than Labour has in the polls because of it. But despite all that, Steele and Campbell march on making a bad situation worse. Not a clue about holding power and keeping it between them.
Is there a real battle going on between the centre left and soft right of the Libdems behind the scenes? Are there real dividing lines being drawn for a battle in the party like the one we had years ago in my party?
9.’at *how* bad’
Is the photo designed to suggest that Pickles weighs three times as much as Huhne?
OT - not sure if this has been highlighted earlier with all my pc woes, an intersting article on conhome showing that the LibDems could lose out under PR
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/09/when-things-couldnt-get-worse-for-the-lib-dems-a-study-suggests-they-would-lose-out-under-pr.html
12.
1. No they wouldn’t.
]
2. We’ve covered that.
3. [smacks of Tory desperation at the coming electoral reform
4. NEXT!!!!
Very good leading article in the times that echoes your sentiments Christina..
“Missing the Liberal Moment
The Liberal Democrats had an opportunity to project a sense of serious purpose this week. Instead, their old divisions surfaced again”
…..
“That is, in fact, the impression that has been left by this week in Bournemouth. There has been a lack of passion and urgency. When Nick Clegg attacks David Cameron, the anger sounds contrived. The party sounds earnest and bland, not full of radical liberal vigour as an anti-Establishment third party needs to be. The policy vacuum of both the Government and the Opposition leaves plenty of available space. Instead of filling it, the Liberal Democrats have fallen into quarrelsome disputes about mansion taxes and tuition fees. A week ago Mr Clegg offered an impressive vision of the Lib Dems’ destination. In the week since, he and his party have shown no inkling of how to get there.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article6846589.ece
Chris Huhne’s comments seemed to fit the initial Lib Dem theme for the Conference which was “Savage” - savage cuts, savage the Tories, savage the rich. A deliberate break with the sandal wearing, salad eating Liberal past, trying to show they could be hard, Doc Martin wearing carnivores too?
After a bit of savaging of their own leadership from the floor & the left the “Savage” theme was toned down but I wonder myself whether it will be “Progressive Austerity” or “Savage Cuts” that will be the more abiding message. Labour & Conservative will certainly compare & contrast their plans and approach with “Savage Cuts” and there are plenty of nasty party allusions opponents can draw on from the first part of the Conference. That’s where the difference between soft speaking Pickles and the over the top nastiness of Huhne will work to the Tories advantage.
IMHO a proportion of what’s called the protest vote is from people who were drawn to the Lib Dems as the alternative to Punch & Judy politics, to positivism rather than the partisan hatreds displayed by Labour & Conservatives towards their opponents. Calm, reasonable, soft spoken & polite Mr Pickles is surely more attractive than hysterical Huhne?
Wonderful speech by Ahmadinejad, btw…
Mike,
have you been able to listen to the actual broadcast?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/today/today_20090922-1122a.mp3
I agree it was an excellent piece of radio theatre and you are right to focus on the intended audience.
Huhne is being brought out for the role he plays best - the tory attack dog, reminding libdem activists and potential switchers of the real record of the tories. In many ways this is a job that Labour should be taking up but are too discredited to carry out. Don’t forget also that he is up against a Tory challenger in a marginal seat, and that he personally despises the tories. While the libdem conference did seem schizophrenic at times, I think Chris’ role is to shore up the party faithful while Vince/Nick take it to the wider electorate. Whether it will work is another question…..
13 - the article says ‘could’ lose out not would and in the senario of smaller parties sharing the vote, as with the Europeans, then that is certainly possible.
18. See my post on previous thread why this “study” is little more than unscientific musings based on a premise deliberately selected to fit the conclusion…
19. RodCrosby: See my post on previous thread why this “study” is little more than unscientific musings based on a premise deliberately selected to fit the conclusion…
So it differs from your post 13… how, exactly?
I wonder who I should believe, Tony Travers or you?
Actually, that’s a lie. I don’t wonder.
16. Having just listened to the broadcast, I think Mike’s analysis is wrong. Perhaps Huhne was a fraction too belligerent, but the basic strategy is absolutely right. If the Tories are going to be arguing that there isn’t a cigarette paper between the two parties, the Lib Dems have to strangle that idea at birth, otherwise it’s bound to be the larger of the two ‘identical’ parties that benefits at the ballot box. The onus is always on the smaller party to differentiate themselves to succeed.
I personally also thought Pickles came across very obviously as a snake oil salesman with all the guff about how the Conservatives will deliver ‘liberal democracy’, but maybe Middle England will be more susceptible to that kind of stuff.
20. It differs from 13 in that I don’t feel like repeating myself - I pointed you to the original post @19. [it's in the last thread but one, mea culpa]
21
I thought Mr Pickles came over as polite, reasonable, and adult. Mr Huhne as rude, irrational, dishonest and childish.
But I’m not a LibDem voter
23. The only snag is that all that politeness, reasonableness and adult behaviour was preceded by a comprehensive explanation by the presenter of exactly what Pickles’ game is! It’s a bit like a Channel 4 announcer saying “and now we hand over to Derren Brown, who will appear to predict the lottery numbers by means of a split screen technique…”
Isn’t Brown’s pathetic eagerness to meet Obama just for the sake of meeting him and share some of his (fading) glamour completely embarassing? This fawning and pathetic eagerness is the worst I can recall from a European leader towards an American President.
Funny how the Global Statesman of the Year seems to have dropped Alan Greenspan since last October.
What a humiliation for our country.
24
I don’t see that matters. Anyone open to being persuded, by either of them, is unlikely to have left that interview with a negative impression of Mr Pickles. I don’t think you can say the same of Mr Huhne.
21. Red Meteor: a fraction too belligerent
A fraction too belligerent?
A FRACTION TOO BELLIGERENT????
Words fail me! I just listened to the item again and counted seven Tim-esque smears - in a very brief piece.
And you call it a FRACTION too belligerent?
Good Morning MI5 Spooks for Prime Minister Nick Clegg Worldwide
Where’s Yellow Submarine? We miss your creative spellings laddie. Come back!
Talking of fiesty characters we will miss: Bill Spiers R.I.P.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/125096-tributes-paid-to-bill-spiers/
25 - I read it slightly differently in that historically a UK PM wouldn’t have needed to be eager to meet the US President as it would have happened as a matter of course. I think it is to the eternal discredit of Labour and Gordon Brown that the Special Relationship has deteriorated to this point where the US President is snubbing the UK Prime Minister with abandon and the UK cannot say it is untrue just that it is being “overplayed”. What a state of affairs.
26. “Anyone open to being persuaded, by either of them, is unlikely to have left that interview with a negative impression of Mr Pickles.”
They might have done, if the words “my, what big teeth you have, grandma” had suddenly popped into their heads.
Interesting to read this in the slightly bonkers Harry Phibbs article that Mike linked to in his post -
“More likely is that the Lib Dems would allow a minority Conservative government to remain in office for a while rather than trying to force another general election straight away. For instance, I doubt the Lib Dems would seek to defeat a Conservative budget…”
This ties in with the question Mike posed yesterday about a scenario in which Labour are the largest party in terms of seats, but the Tories win the popular vote. But as I understand the constitutional position, if there is no formal coalition or pact, in that situation there would be no Tory minority government for the Lib Dems to form a view on in the first place - there would in fact be a Labour one. And given their love for FPTP, the Tories would be in absolutely no position to complain about such a perverse outcome, or indeed to blame the Lib Dems for it.
27. “And you call it a FRACTION too belligerent?”
Yeah, I thought he was doing absolutely fine until he started going on about Latvian Nazis and such-like. And the main problem with that was simply that most of the audience wouldn’t have had a clue what he was talking about.
21. Red Meteor - “… it’s bound to be the larger of the two ‘identical’ parties that benefits at the ballot box. The onus is always on the smaller party to differentiate themselves to succeed.”
Indeed.
This was certainly the case at the Scottish general election in 2007, where large parts of the Scottish National Party manifesto and the Lib Dem manifesto were “cigarette paper” width apart. To make matters worse for the smaller party, that election was very much a high-profile fight between “Four More Years” of FM McConnell, or turning over a new leaf with FM Salmond*.
The onus is on the Lib Dems to differentiate their platform from the very similar SNP platform. Obviously, the constitutional issue is the supposèd “clear golden water”, which just makes Lang’s, Lyon’s, Farquhar Munro’s & Company’s support for the Referendum Bill all the more frustrating for Tavish Scott, a polititian diminishing in stature before our very eyes.
* Does anyone else out there recall the months and months of PB sages telling us that Salmond was not even going to be an MSP as he would be thrashed in Gordon and miss out on the NE list?
I love PB’s self-appointed Scotchlandshire Sages. They make lil ole me look like a flippin genius.
32. If ‘polititian’ is not creative spelling I don’t know what it is. Thanks YS, for ruining my fine linguistic skills…
‘SNP’s referendum sweetener to Lib Dems’
Speaking at a conference on devolution yesterday, Mr Salmond went out of his way to revive an offer for a multi-option referendum on the future constitutional position of Scotland.
A multi-option referendum is known to be favoured by the Liberal Democrats.
… it is understood that the party’s Treasury spokesman, Vince Cable, a former Glasgow councillor, is pushing for a quick referendum in the belief that if one were held when the Conservatives were in government, the Nationalists would win.
In a section of [Jim Murphy's] speech headed: “TGI Britain – thank God it’s Britain,” he questioned why there was more interest in constitutional issues than improving people’s lives. He added: “Nationalism is the pathway to the past, we are in the fast lane to the interconnected super highway.”
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/SNP39s-referendum-sweetener-to-Lib.5674840.jp
So, Scottish Labour are “in the fast lane to the interconnected super highway” are they? Can I have some of what Jim Murphy has been having please?
Labour are certainly on the ’super highway’ alright, but they are not going to like the point of destination. Not one little bit.
33 “Tavish Scott, a polititian”
I wonder whether your subconscious latched onto the Titian - or the tit?
35.
I’m a big fan of Titian. I am not a big fan of tits. (Political tits that is. I love Crested Tits - and Long-tailed ones - they’re great.)
Talking of Titian, I can highly recommend a visit to the National Gallery of Scotland in Scotland and/or the Uffizi in Florence. Both great centres for European art historians.
Edinburgh and Florence are twin cities with good reason.
31
“the main problem with that was simply that most of the audience wouldn’t have had a clue what he was talking about.”
?????????
Being dishonest and ludicrously OTT isn’t a problem?
‘Tories Eat Babies’ only makes sense as an argument to people who think Tories Eat Babies. Everyone else just turns off.
36. typo heaven today (is it the curse of mentioning YS?) - that should read “National Gallery of Scotland in Edinburgh”.
Anyone might think that I was obsessed by the word ‘Scotland’ or something…
Huhne did the same thing when standing for leadership against Clegg. It backfired then and will backfire again.
37. But “Conservatives will deliver Liberal Democrat policies” only makes sense as an argument to people who haven’t noticed that the Conservatives are…well, conservative.
Stuart, just curious - if the multi-option referendum is adopted and Scotland voted in the referendum for more powers - but not full independence - would that still be viewed as a success by SNP members? Or (presumably having campaigned for full independence) would it be seen by them as a frustration, with perhaps decades of delay to full independence?
And what if there was a result of say independence 40%, more powers 35%, no change 25% - where would that leave the debate? Westminster would point to there being no majority for independence - but there would be no mandate to pursue further powers either. How would that shake out?
40. RM.
As may be.
Resorting to Tim-style smears doesn’t counter that argument, however!
41. I know my name isn’t Stuart, but the answers to your questions are -
a) A multi-option referendum that produced a majority for more powers would be a decent result for the SNP. It’s the one way in which a defeat for independence could still look like (and indeed genuinely be) progress towards independence in the long-term.
b) Any multi-option referendum would have rules to produce a majority, either by run-off or by preferential voting, so that eventuality wouldn’t occur.
43 Thanks, RM.
‘Huhne sprayed back abuse, ranging from smearing Latvian MEPs as Nazi sympathisers’
Sadly that’s the default panic position of the Left: just shriek about the Third Reich and tarnish your political opponents. I’ve noticed it on PB.com with tom (I think that’s his name) who’s forever chucking about Nazi slurs. Extremely tasteless in my view, but I’m no political activists.
O/T
Looks like even Pravda are getting fed up with the Brown machine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8272061.stm
Pickles is selling a revitalised brand, he has a big advantage.
The more the likes of Huhne go negative, the easier Big Eric’s job becomes.
I concur with the view that talking of Latvian Nazi sympathisers will go straight over most people’s heads. It also has the disadvantage that majority of the electorate is closer to the Tory position on the EU than that of the Lib Dems. Its a topic that risks losing the party some of their South Western seats, an so should be avoided.
46 “The UK prime minister’s team were “frantic” after being unable to secure the talks at the UN summit in New York, a diplomatic source has told the BBC.”
I’m thinking a swear box could have gone a long way to solving Britain’s deficit…
How is this likely to effect voting results in the North of England?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b42a9246-a879-11de-9242-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
OT
The tale of Patricia Scotland and her Tongan illegal so neatly encapsulates so many of New Labour’s least enchanting traits (arrogance, incompetence, lust for needlessly intrusive law, venality, reliance on whitewashing, the smugness and exhaustion of those in power too long, and, above all, startlingly brazen hypocrisy) that it has the flavour of a crude satirical conceit. It is also an indecently perfect morality play about the dangers of the centre left hopping into bed with right wing tabloids. Invariably, they emerge with a discharge and itchy rash.
Lady Scotland picked up her dose by enacting the law obliging employers not only to check the documentation of non-EU workers, but also keep copies. From a government that nudge-nudgingly, wink-winkishly encouraged an illegal immigrant workforce as cheap fuel for an overheating economy, such legislation could have only one intent: to assuage The Sun and Daily Mail, the latter being the title that grassed her up and allowed her to become the first private citizen to be fined for breaching it.
When she took up her post, Lady Scotland had a dig at her predecessor’s abrogation of duty over Iraq, adding to the oath of office a line about respecting the rule of law. Nothing wrong there. You’d want that spelt out to a law officer, wouldn’t you? “We had to make sure the public better understood that the attorney was there”, she said last December. “To make sure that the rule of law was present right at the heart of government.” Aha.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-the-perfect-new-labour-scandal-1792101.html
Blue Rog @49
It will have two major effects.
1) Labour will have to talk to its core, thus putting off the floaters.
2) Resources will be needed in the heartlands, reducing them for the marginals.
Not a pretty picture.
Times Online:
Asked on BBC Radio 5 Live whether he might quit for health reasons, the Prime Minister replied: “I am healthy and I am very fit. I run a lot to keep fit and I will continue to keep fit. I keep going. I have got a job to do. I have got work to do.”
He runs a lot ….really?
I only listened to the Pickles-Huhne lovefest this morning and I have to disagree with what some people here are saying. Pickles said nothing of any real substance and Huhne was the one who talked about genuine policy issues. Pickles’ attempts to sound avuncular merely made him seem oily and insincere although Huhne did go off the deep end at times.
The problem the Lib Dems always have, and even more so at the moment, is trying to develop a coherent policy narrative and the party conference only made this situation worse as Clegg tries to pull the party in an ‘Orange Book’ direction whilst the lefty MPs and activists dig their heels in.
52 How can you doubt it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00119/gordon-brown-runnin_119558t.jpg
Oh - sorry - he gets the runs a lot…
Iggy et al
For me the strongest part of Nick Clegg’s speech was “We will raise the income tax threshold to £10,000, funded by closing loopholes that the wealthy exploit, and by making sure polluters pay for the damage they cause. I’ll be honest. If you’ve got a house worth over a million pounds; if you fly trans-Atlantic a couple of times a month; if you get a seven-figure bonus paid in share options to get round income tax – you will pay more. That is what is fair.”
Sound pretty different from both Labour and the Tories.
There are plenty of people who think Gordon Brown is a hopeless general, but he is starting to be an unlucky one. While he was stuck in a queue at the United Nations waiting for Colonel Gaddafi’s random ramble to end, his troubles were piling up at home.
It was bad enough that Stephen Hesford stepped down as a parliamentary aide to Baroness Scotland of Asthal, saying that, as a matter of principle, he could not stay in government as long as she did.
Mr Brown’s defence, that the matter is serious, but just short of a resignation issue, is not patently wrong. If he did not have a reputation for letting issues slide and for allowing errors to multiply, it might not look such a mess. But, unfortunately, he does and it does.
And, if anyone was disposed to give the Prime Minister the benefit of the doubt, along comes Charles Clarke to rub it in. In an interview with the London Evening Standard, Mr Clarke cheerfully pours scorn on the calibre of the Cabinet (it was better in my day) and predicts that Labour could be out of power for a long time.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6846698.ece
Just listened to the interview after reading Mike’s piece and that Harry Phipps thing. If the interviewer hadn’t kept mentioning the two people’s names I’d have thought someone had posted the wrong link. It’s a perfectly good-natured interview; Pickles is being obviously mischievous, while Huhne is doing a very standard politician’s rebuttal / counterattack in a perfectly friendly way.
And what evidence is there that attacks like the thing about Cameron riding his bike to work with the car driving behind him don’t chime with the intended audience? (Apart from Mike…) There’s plenty of evidence that Cameron is popular, and that the LibDems are losing votes to him, but that doesn’t mean that everybody trusts him about everything and nothing will stick. If the BBC are reporting the YouGov poll here right,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/apr/17/boris-johnson-gordon-brown-poll-trust
…Cameron was only trusted by 21% of voters. (And that may exclude the 1/3 who don’t trust anyone.)
Love bombing?
Certainly no dive bombing and no heavy petting
Gordon Brown had to deny Westminster rumours yesterday that he could quit on health grounds as party strife shattered his hopes of a smooth run-in to the Labour conference.
On a day of troubles on both sides of the Atlantic the Prime Minister suffered a revolt over his decision to save the Attorney-General and exasperation at the UN. Efforts to give him a better speaking slot at the New York gathering were thwarted by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, whose 94-minute rant pushed him farther down the timetable for speeches.
Mr Brown’s reputation as a world statesman had already taken a knock as details emerged of attempts to seek a formal one-to-one meeting with President Obama. Mr Brown eventually had to follow the President through the kitchens of the UN after a reception to secure some private “face time”.
In an interview in New York, Mr Brown tried to shrug off doubts over whether he would fight the election after unsubstantiated claims that he could retire early and cite ill health.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6846771.ece
55. “If you’ve got a house worth over a million pounds; if you fly trans-Atlantic a couple of times a month; if you get a seven-figure bonus paid in share options to get round income tax”
Sound pretty different from both Labour and the Tories.
Hmmm.
If you bought a house for 32,000 in 1982, if you are a business traveller, if you work for a successful part of the wealth generating sector of the economy…
Sounds a bit mental…
O/T
Typical AGW scaremongering on BBC World this morning reporting on a joint Dutch/British training exercise on flood prevention. This is for major storm surges or flash flooding NOT AGW (Anthropomorphic Global Warming).
Aren’t Huhne’s comments really all part of the rough and tumble of political jousting?
Far more damaging I suspect to the LibDems’ prospects were Ming Campbell’s “Armageddon” comments, demonstrating his Party’s deep-seated loathing for the Tories on the one hand and on the other its willingness, even now, to cosy up to Labour.
This is not what the electorate wanted to hear. But Ming decided he’d tell them anyway.
I think this is at heart an issue about the army of striking Tory voters. The significant move in voter numbers between the last 3 or 4 elections is not in the Labour or LibDem count – but the total Tory count. Some of their losses transferred over the left hand side of the political spectrum. Many more just stayed away, and the overall turnouts fell.
3 or 4 million voters deserted them in 1997 and have been only slowly returning. It seems this huge group of non-voters is now sufficiently pissed off with the world to come back and sink Gordon.
Pickles’ project is to persuade the switchers to switch back – with so far quite some success it would seem. Gordon Brown and the Labour party are doing the Tories’ work for them on the stay-at-home mob all by themselves.
I think the 2010 outcome will be surprisingly similar to the 1992 one
57 Edmund. That poll is from the 17 April and the article implies Boris and Cameron were the two most trusted politicians.
59
Brown will spend the rest of the time left before the GE on the back foot denying this and that. Its all negative stuff and there seems to be no way out of it. The Obama “snub”, whether true or not is immensely damaging to the PM personally. It certainly won’t help him nor Labour, and as for the glitz of being seen with Obama at the G20, that was worth a few days slightly better press and then it was back to “normal”. A dirty GE campaign would be madness, but thats what they are going for.
60 - Looks like another “You’ll share the pain betweeen you, not us” post from a Dave and Gideon fan.
If you cannot be bothered registering to read that FT article, here is the summary:
‘Labour support in north dives - report’
The Labour Party’s traditional lead over the Conservatives in northern England, its electoral stronghold, has collapsed under Prime Minister Gordon Brown, according to research by the Financial Times newspaper.
The FT said on Thursday David Cameron was on course for a clear majority of English seats in the next general election, expected in May 2010.
The business daily’s analysis of recent polling data indicates the Tories have a four-point lead in the north of England, wiping out the 19-point Labour lead in the region that helped keep Tony Blair in power in the last election.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE58N09A20090924
Should the LibDems’ share of the vote after the Party Conferences settle down at 17% or above, then they should consider themselves fortunate.
Tory public spending cuts ‘could push unemployment to 5 million’
- Public spending cuts proposed by the Tories could drive up unemployment to over five million, a former member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee has warned
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/georgeosborne/6224723/Tory-public-spending-cuts-could-push-unemployment-to-5-million.html
Does anybody honestly think that the Scots are going to hang around in the Union to witness that?
This Obama issue- Brown’s now seriously damaging the integrity of the office. It’s a national embarrassment.
57. Edmund in Tokyo: Huhne is doing a very standard politician’s rebuttal / counterattack in a perfectly friendly way.
62. PfP:Aren’t Huhne’s comments really all part of the rough and tumble of political jousting?
See my post 27. He clearly, and with malice aforethought, crossed the line that divides valid attacks from outright smearing.
Perhaps you’ve had to suffer Tim too much - this was certainly right out of his playbook.
Perhaps Obama recognised the lack of leadership and courage from this year’s Statesman of the World over Libya, and saw instead a weak, unelected, discredited appeaser.
11. Doesn’t he?
It’s quite obvious to me (and I imagine, to most of us) that a Conservative government would *not* deliver Lib Dem policies, although there is an overlap on some civil liberties issues. But the two parties’ conception of liberty is quite different, and goes back to the division between Classical Liberals (who saw freedom in terms of freedom from State coercion) and New Liberals (who regarded a strong State as essential to protect people from exploitation) in the 1900s. Eventually, most of the Classical Liberals wound up in the Conservative Party, or its allies like the National Liberals.
However, Pickles strategy makes sense. It’s intended to peel off a few hundred Lib Dem voters here and there in constituencies in the South, and will probably succeed.
46. BBC report: The prime minister’s team were “frantic” after being unable to secure the talks at the UN summit in New York, a diplomatic source has told the BBC.
The memoirs of some of these civil servants are going to be fascinating.
I wonder if anyone has a picture of the Obama and Brown talk-walk through the kitchens. With the President striding out, leaving Gordon puffing away in his wake, can it possibly have lasted for more than 5 or 6 seconds?
How bloody embarrassing must that have been.
69 Does anyone honestly believe that that is what will happen?
69 - I’m thinking of buying a nice little bolt hole near Loch Lomond while England has a Foponomics experiment.
Do you know a good estate agent?
#69, by Stuart Dickson September 24th, 2009 at 7:40 am
Tory public spending cuts ‘could push unemployment to 5 million’
- Public spending cuts proposed by the Tories could drive up unemployment to over five million, a former member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee has warned…
Does anybody honestly think that the Scots are going to hang around in the Union to witness that?
Quote:
“The Phillips Curve is wrong, it’s as fundamental as that,” said Blanchflower. [Source: (Wiki broken-link) http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=1994101301050&sheadline=blanchflower&sauthor=&stext=
Total t0sser! I’ve been taught Economics by men (including Charles Goodhart) that this fool is unworthy of mentioning in the same sentence. Labour stool!
76 - How much demand will be taken out of the economy in the “emergency budget”?
Answer that and we’ll tell you whether Blanchflower is serious.
63
Good point.
——
FT/Charles Clarke reminds us that Labour are broke.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a8351578-a87a-11de-9242-00144feabdc0.html
James Brown exercising:
http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/english/2009/01/cartoon-of-the-day.html
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o2P8f2uamuU/SKtsdyf3DDI/AAAAAAAAAs4/Pk3GyiqcLVw/s400/gay+gordon+brown.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/07/article-1178330-04D0E25D000005DC-505_468×373.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U54NM9QE5VY/Sc0gKwiQFeI/AAAAAAAAGhk/6VPf4-T9GAI/s320/Gordon+Brown.jpg
There are signs of desperation in the Lib Dems with the splits and divisions that are starting to open driven by the “state they are in”. If following this Conference the polls start giving them ratings in the 20s then they will seize those green shoots even if it only lasts a week. A post GE drop to under 50 MPs could trigger a revolt.
I saw the Andrew Neil interview with Julia Goldsworthy on the BBC2 conference report last night. She looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights as he pushed her about Cable failing to tell her he was revealing (to the public) his mansion tax bombshell. She looked out of her depth.
Earlier Cable had said that whilst he should have communicated it better, he set the tax policy….. A recipe for further tension with his colleagues?
79 In advance of that budget, I have no idea.
However, I do know that the government won’t be able to borrow 14% of GDP every year, indefinitely.
Chris Huhne has a general problem with tone and can often come across as grating. The Lib Dems more generally have completely misjudged how to handle the Tories.
Consider what each party is saying to the other’s potential voters. Tories are saying: “We respect your past choice and now invite you to vote for us as the party most able to deliver the policies that you are looking for. The next election is about getting rid of Labour, and we can help you do that.” Meanwhile, the Lib Dems are saying: “Are you MAD? These people are evil. EVIL!”
I know which approach I find more persuasive.
A man in peak physical… and James Brown:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/10/article-1198756-05A9CED2000005DC-886_468×599.jpg
Mike - have you now listened to the radio broadcast and do you still think Huhne got it badly wrong in the Pickles interview?
This picture just oozes ‘Star Quality’. It also has James Brown in it too:
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2009/04/02/gal_london_8.jpg
Yes - Chris Huhne can “go OTT” at times. But, 47 and others, it is not his or the Lib Dems’ fault that the Tories have left mainstream conservatism in their European allies, and formed an alliance with extreme parties with a variety of agendas. Sorry, Tories may not like to hear about this, but it is difficult for them to present as the soul of “Picklesian reasonableness” when the reality of their friends is revealed!
39 Of course, the result between Clegg and Huhne was very tight, and was controversial because of postal strikes allegedly leaving quite large numbers of votes undelivered. So it may not have backfired on Huhne at all.
75 “can it possibly have lasted for more than 5 or 6 seconds?”
Enough time for Obama to say
“Leave me alone. Understand? LEAVE. ME. ALONE!!”
Perhaps the next press story Downing Street will have to deny will be about Obama’s lawyers serving the Prime Minister with a restraining order…
Vince Cable seems to have a problem with younger people. Witness his attacks on Osborne. Is that why he treated Julia Goldsworthy with such disdain?
He also poors scron on politicians that have had little real world experience. Why? Is it because his Leader has so little experience outside UK and European parliaments. Is resentment festering away in the folically challenged Vince towards younger hairier people?
69 Stuart, Yes you are correct the Scots are not going to hang around in the Union to witness that.
Best wishes on your hopefully successful independence.
Your lucky,you can go, the North of England will have no choice.
90, I’ve heard unconfirmed rumours Vince is planning to propose a hair tax, and a slaphead rebate…
Betting Post!!
Ladbrokes have now got prices on the Welsh Labour Leader:
5/4 CARWYN JONES
11/4 HUW LEWIS
4/1 EDWINA HART
10/1 JANE HUTT
I dont think that Jane Hutt will run, and I think the value bet will be with Edwina Hart. Carwyn has been favorite for too long, and I think his campaign will fizzle out - Huw has too many enemies and the fight between him and Carwyn could get vicious - but in the background Edwina has a lot of trade union support and many Labour voters will get behind her as a ‘Unity’ candidate.
Well worth a flutter
88 Tim13 The Europe question is the biggest area of weakness that Huhne has in his own constituency. If he bangs on about it it just draws attention to his europhile antics which is what his Conservative opponent would like to do. He would be better keeping quiet, but let us not interrupt a rival making a mistake.
Yet again it illustrates the strategic errors the LDs are doing. Good stuff.
92 That should get OGH back on side!
91. dez - “Best wishes on your hopefully successful independence.”
Thanks dez.
But we will not forget our friends in the south. Scotland will be England’s greatest ally in the centuries to come. We can do great things together in the international forums of the world. Two voices singing in harmony, and two votes, are better than one.
A new Special Relationship among English-speaking nations beckons.
96, hmm. Pre-UK, wasn’t Scotland a constant pain in the arse and historical ally of France?
Gordon Brown doing some weight-lifting exercises.
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/storage/975154641_579cc8713f.jpg
[Hat-tip: Oil_Slick@ARRSE.]
92 the irony is that Huhne would probably avoid the mansion tax because whilst he and his wife have 7 properties, none are probably in the million level. Added together they are. Tax avoidance?
One side effect of a mansion tax would be that more property would be split into separate units by landlords in areas such as Kensington to get themselves under the £1m level. Also property trusts would flourish taking the home away from being the personal asset of people. The tax avoidance of the mansion tax would probably reduce the takeup to less than 10% of the potential. Another impact is that people with 1 house split their assets into 2 and own their “holiday home”. thus the housing stock available to all will be reduced and the south west holiday home problem would be worsened. Home of 16 LD MPs.
99, 16 at the moment.
Is Scotland still in post? It’s certainly an unorthodox manner in which to pave the way for a smooth and successful conference.
52
PFP
“He runs a lot”.
As a runner, there is one sure way to tell if anyone runs a lot.
Look at their face. Jowly, fat, wobbly: a couch potato or overeating.
Thin, sunken cheeks, gaunt? A runner.
Needless to say I am in the latter category .
92 - An excellent idea, so long as number one haircuts come within the follically preferred tax bracket.
96.Stuart I hope you are correct, when the Scottish people vote for independence, it will be respected by those elites in charge at the time in England with no rancour.
The whole Obama with Brown business just shows that when your luck is out, its really out.
It also shows that you make your own luck. Brown and his ministers delivered for months what appeared to be a rule that they must associate with the Obama name everytime they were in front of the camera. It led to some of the worst shoe horning imaginable.
It only makes the boomerang effect all that more painful.
Sicken the lot of them.
97. MD - “Pre-UK, wasn’t Scotland a constant pain in the arse and historical ally of France?”
Yes. But why does Post-UK have to be the same?
It is up to our nations to build a new partnership based on mutual respect. Something we have lacked throughout our entire over 1000 year co-existence.
Scotland of course will naturally seek to rebuild good relationships with our pre-Union partners in France and across the North Sea and the Baltic countries (remember that Scots have a deep history in countries like Holland, Poland, Sweden and Russia).
But we will never again be the mortal enemies of England. We will, after all, share our Head of State (along with Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Jamaica etc).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_realm
Message to Labour and Lib Dems: The voters don’t give a flying f@@k about which group UK MEPs of whom they have never heard choose to sit with - it just is not an issue.
STOP WHINING ON ABOUT IT AS YOU JUST SHOW YOURSELF UP AS OBSESSIONAL, SAD LOSERS
Peter @ 52
I am healthy and I am very fit. I run a lot
He runs alot, mainly away from the electorate.
Irish Referendum Latest - The COIR Campaign confirms that NO is ahead. See HERE
HEALTH WARNING 1 - Link is to my own blog ‘The Tap’.
(Did Smithson borrow the above Huhne image at top from me?)
55. A voice from Lothian
As a Scottish Liberal Democrat, are you satisfied with the way the Lib Dem conference went? Honestly.
THANK HEAVENS FOR THE LIBDEMS CONFERANCE
What a tremendous week this has been for the voting public.
We have seen that the Libdems are the most nasty grotesque mudslinging bunch of charletons ever to take the political stage. I am biting my tongue while stating this but they are even more nasty and directionless than Labour !
It has surely shown many that should never ever be allowed anywhere near power.
Labour are the nasty party.
LibDems the dangerous very nasty party.
‘FF support plummets among farming community’
Fianna Fáil’s support among the farming community has fallen by 21% since May of last year, according to an opinion poll published today.
The Red C poll in the Farmers Journal puts support for the main government party at 25%.
Fine Gael’s support among farmers has increased by 22 points to 62%.
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/ff-support-plummets-among-farming-community-427535.html
88. Tim13: Sorry, Tories may not like to hear about this, but it is difficult for them to present as the soul of “Picklesian reasonableness” when the reality of their friends is revealed!
The reason that Eurosceptics (not just Tories) have got bored to tears by the continual attacks on other ECR group members is that - even laying aside the well rehearsed list of PES “extremists” we remember how one of the “extreme” parties that the lefties and Eurofederalists assured us the Tories would have to join up with if they left the EPP ended up joining, err, the EPP.
‘No posters have biggest impact on students’
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0924/1224255130131.html
111. 62%? Pah, thats nothing in Irish terms. Sure Sinn Fein’s support amongst dead people who voted was easily 90%+ on occasions in the past.
‘Dáil to begin two-week Lisbon break’
The Dáil is due to take a two-week break today to allow TDs to canvass voters ahead of the re-run of the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
The House only reconvened last week after its lengthy summer break and will now be in recess again until October 6.
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/dail-to-begin-twoweek-lisbon-break-427550.html
Tim13 @88
it is not his or the Lib Dems’ fault that the Tories have left mainstream conservatism in their European allies, and formed an alliance with extreme parties with a variety of agendas.
There is no such thing as mainstream conservatism (as we understand it) in Europe. With a few exceptions most of Europe’s right wing parties are statists. We Conservatives have very little in common with Sarko, Angela or Silvio. We don’t have that much in common with many of our new allies either, but where it matters, we are in closer agreement, ever closer union is a bad idea.
Labour and the Lib Dems talk up the “dodgy” nature of our partners for one reason. They don’t want the focus to be on attitudes to an increasingly overbearing and unneccessary EU. Because the public are much closer to the Tory moderate scepticism.
What is the Lib Dems fault is the fact that we are signing up to the EU’s enabling act (Lisbon) without the public having a chance to pass their verdict, despite being promised one by those beacons of democracy. That is more important than an EP marriage of convienience.
69. Stuart.
a. Blanchflower is so extreme on borrowing and interest rates that he makes Gordon Brown look Micawberish. I’d treat anything he says with a pinch of salt.
b. It was Scottish politicians at No 11 who went a long way to getting us into this mess in the first place.
c. How much of the Scottish budget (including transfers from Whitehall) do you think is currently borrowing? Independence won’t solve that problem. And to sketch out the options, try it again with oil at $30 a barrel, just to stress-test.
108. Tapestry.
That’s the same old hoax press release regurgitated again.
‘Odds are on Irish saying ‘Yes’ to EU reforms’
An Irish bookmaker is already paying out on a “Yes” vote in next month’s plebiscite on the European Union’s reform treaty.
“With odds at 1/12, a positive outcome looks a foregone conclusion, although we do expect it to be tight,” said Leon Blanche, a spokesman for Boylesports. “With many crucial groups in the country, such as farmers and business leaders, supporting
the treaty we believe that this result is now inevitable,” he said.
http://news.scotsman.com/world/Odds-are-on-Irish-saying.5674861.jp
‘BoyleSports paying out to punters who bet on ‘Yes’ vote for Lisbon’
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/BoyleSports-paying-out-to-punters-who-bet-on-Yes-vote-for-Lisbon-60762427.html
‘Axa Investment Sees Pound-Euro Parity in Six Months’
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=ae22dyDXnEP8
On topic, yes, Pickles is winning. One result may be that the Lib Dems’ biggest disappointment in May might not be the losses to the Tories but the failure to gain from Labour.
To do this, the Lib Dems need switchers from Labour and tactical votes from other parties but principally the Tories. They’ve been very good at getting tactical votes from Labour against the Tories (where there’s a much closer alignment of interest), but noticably worse at squeezing the Tory vote. The way they’ve behaved this last week, they’ll be no closer to achieving that end next year. With some Labour votes possibly going home after the 2005 Iraq protest and as the best option to ‘keep the Tories out’, the Lib Dems might find they win far fewer seats from Labour than they’re hoping to.
110 Yes the savage cuts Clegg speech does make Cameron look reasonable.
‘Sterling could fall below euro parity’
http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/MarketsAndSectors/Markets/article/20090923/86051a4c-a82b-11de-9695-00144f2af8e8/Sterling-could-fall-below-euro-parity.jsp
119/120
Yes but PP are not as they got their fingers burnt first time round, paying out on Yes before the results. They have cut the odds on a yes vote to 1/25, however
From Allegra Stratton in the Guardian “The Liberal Democrats are to borrow money to help mount their first direct mailshot as part of an attempt to widen the number of seats they target at the next election to more than 200″
http://tinyurl.com/Guardian-Allegra
Now that 200 seems to comprise the 63 they are defending and 120+ second places.
In the 63 they are defending most are against the Conservatives. there are more Conservative seats in the first 50 (of the 120 second places) than Labour. Is this why they have shifted their attacks to the Conservatives?
But why chase 2nd places against a party that has gained 20 points in the polls since GE2005? The LDs just cannot resist their “natural” preference to chase Tory seats.
117 Blanchflower can`t be discounted he was correct on so many things before the mainstream in 07.
6 - TSE
Or he’s had a close encounter with the Prince of Darkness
106.
Well said,
what the public do give a flying f4ck about though is “why we have been betrayed by Labour for not giving us a referendum on the treaty AS PROMISED BY LABOUR”
116. “What is the Lib Dems fault is the fact that we are signing up to the EU’s enabling act (Lisbon) without the public having a chance to pass their verdict”
Did I miss something - have Labour lost their majority in the HofC?
‘TV channel planned for independent Scotland’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6846727.ece
I was having a good chat with an LD activist friend of mine in the pub last night.
He put the blame for the LDs’ current woes squarely on the doomed decapitation strategy, which he described as being a one-election strategy when a two-election strategy was clearly called for. Because it failed, the LDs still need a two-election strategy as they didn’t make enough inroads against Labour last time to be a serious threat to them in enough places to be a realistic challenger for second place this time.
Sorry if this has been posted before, but….
http://www.readingfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10306~1800299,00.html
Support the lads and lasses!
Comment on Guido on that snub.
Brown “finally ran him to earth in a kitchen. As International Statesmen of the year do when discussing issues of great import with the President of the United States.”
Things are getting truly desperate for Brown in New York. He’s just sent his last and only friend Sean Woodward over the top to deny the snub story on the Today program. Why the hell is the taxpayer paying for Woodward to chaperone Brown to America?
118. COIR have not previously claimed to be ahead, as I have seen. Can you give references ?
124. Have you had the misfortune to change money this week yet? Take into account commission or bank charges and watch the pound go low.
126. From what I recall, he’s been almost always in favour of looser monetary policy than was the case at the time and is now keen on extremely loose fiscal policy. Forgive me for being sceptical but as it is, the amount of credit available landed us with the credit crisis and the fiscal policy has given us Britain’s worst ever peacetime deficits. I can’t see how Blanchflower’s policies would have made things better.
‘STV hits back after £38m action by ITV’
STV, the Scottish commercial broadcaster, is set to hit back at ITV with a £40 million-plus claim, amid a row over advertising revenues that it says should have been given by ITV.
The likely lawsuit opens a second legal front between STV and the network a day after ITV said it would sue STV for £38 million in a dispute about cash due for programmes made in London but not aired in Scotland after STV dropped shows such as The Bill.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6846655.ece
Thursday 24 September, 10.35pm. Marking 30 years on air, Question Time returns in Bournemouth where the party conference season begins with the Liberal Democrats. David Dimbleby chairs. The panel: Harriet Harman MP, Deputy Leader, Labour Party; Lord (Michael) Heseltine, former Deputy Prime Minister; Lord (Digby) Jones, former Trade Minister; David Laws MP, Liberal Democrat Children, Schools and Families spokesman; and Fraser Nelson, Editor, Spectator.
Also tomorrow night at 9pm BBC Parliament will show the first ever edition of Question Time with Robin Day in the chair with panellists Michale Foot Teddy Taylor Edna O’Brien and Archbishop Derek Worlock
(Final attempt to post this. Maybe the journalist’s first name is the problem?)
“The Liberal Democrats are to borrow money to help mount their first direct mailshot as part of an attempt to widen the number of seats they target at the next election to more than 200 – according to aides, their largest number of targeted seats ever.”
http://preview.tinyurl.com/Guardian-Stratton
135. No dr spyn. However, members of my family had to exchange a large sum of money recently. They got a very, very unpleasant shock.
Anyone travelling abroad on a skiing holiday better tighten their belts now. Why not travel to Scotland’s ski resorts? They will soon be abroad too.
63: Patrick’s analysis is interesting - essentially that the story of 1997-2005 was one of mass Tory absenteeism and the current lead reflects many of the defectors being fed up enough to give the Tories another try. With population change (death, coming of age, migration) it’s clearly not that simple, but I think there’s something in it, and it fits with the less than stellar rating that the Tories get in many secondary questions - essentially many Tory voters have shifted from “all the parties are rubbish” and “the Tories seem a bit less rubbish this time”. How stable that is remains to be seen.
I won’t be posting much today as we’ve got a by-election today and it’ll be time to start knockup shortly. Result in the multi-member ward last time 2007: Con 1394/1315/1301 LibDem 725/719/669 Lab 411/402/387 BNP 205 UKIP 149. Not exactly fertile terrain and we might get squeezed but we are sailing into the fray and we’ll see how we get on. Inconveniently, the Tory candidate has actually rather good credentials - she runs one of the main community centres. On the other hand, their relative shortage of activists of foot-slogging age has again reared its head. Anyway it’s good fun, as every election is, win or lose.
129. NoOffenceAlan.
You’re being disingenuous.
The Lib Dems
(a) promised a referendum in their manifesto
(b) abstained in the Commons
(c) opposed a referendum in the Lords.
Had they been consistent, even to the extent of opposing a referendum in both Houses of Parliament, they would be more respected on the issue.
It continues to amaze me how Toenails can put a positive spin on any news story that is bad for Brown
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/09/the_obama_and_gordon_card.html
134.118.108. This is from the most recent article from COIR, dated 15th September, prior to current claim that NO is now pulling ahead.
No to Lisbon campaigners Cóir, have said that reports from their nationwide canvass shows that the vote on the Lisbon Treaty will be much tighter than the recent Red C poll suggests
As I said, they now write that their canvass returns indicate a lead for NO.
LondonStatto Your LD friend is right. The decapitation strategy left the LDs too far behind Labour in their sets. It set the LDs up for a reverse at this GE rather than progress. It failed in 2005 and undermined the base in 2010. Disastrous.
134. Tapestry.
Yes, I have references.
Start with this one: http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/09/22/could-the-gael-poll-be-an-elaborate-hoax/
143, if he doesn’t Gordon won’t agree to spoon with him.
141. NPMP - “… it’s good fun, as every election is, win or lose.”
Oh yes Nick. You are going to find the next UK GE is a great big bundle of laughs-a-minute.
#140, by Stuart Dickson September 24th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Anyone travelling abroad on a skiing holiday better tighten their belts now. Why not travel to Scotland’s ski resorts? They will soon be abroad too.
No thanks,
If stuck on one of your lightly-dusted snow slopes and I get into trouble, I doubt if your nation could afford the Squirrel to rescue me. [And I don't mean the French helicopter either...!
]
A huge amount of Lib Dems’ votes come from people who don’t actively support the party or its policies (this is true to some extent of all parties, but the Liberals in particular are a dustbin for protest votes)
A very large proportion of these votes are/were anti-tory votes in 97, 2001, 2005. Pickles is right in thinking that the tories have a great chance to win these votes back. The Lib Dem activists need to stop thinking that everyone who votes Lib Dem hates the tories like the activists do. In many cases this is not true, not any more. This week’s conference shows that the liberals are just not serious contenders, they don’t quite get it.
I would love it if Huhne lost his seat…
93 Carwyn will def not get my vote.Never met him(says a lot)but never impressed by him on media.I am hoping for someone who can lift the malaise that is Wales Labour.Edwina is doing decent job, but avoids press like the plague, so I can’t see her being up to the job.Huw may get my vote but we will have to see what happens over next few days.Rhodri might not resign!
Oh for another Neil Kinnock to arise from the ashes.
The Broxtowe Labour party is so full of footslogging activists that they have to go to the Borough of Rushcliffe to find a candidate.
Strange that there was no Labour activist from the Borough prepared to stand.
Guido reporting that hall was half empty for Gordo’s speech. You would have thought for “Statesman of the Year” they would have been queuing around the block to get in. Oh no wait, I remember his speech to congress now, they had to bus loads of staffers in to fill the place.
NoOffence Alan @ 129
There was always the chance of a Labour rebellion if the Lib Dems had stuck to their manifesto pledge and voted for a referendum. At least Labour had the excuse that they were trying to get Tony a job as President, whereas the Lib Dems only had Clegg’s pension.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/09/the_obama_and_gordon_card.html
Telling line:
If they [Labour strategists] hadn’t been so desperate [to link Brown with Obama], this would never have been a story at all.
Poor old Stuart. His fellow Scots will never vote for independence. Most of us aren’t fools: we know how low our standards of living would be without the massive subsidy from the UK taxpayer.
All the Bannockburn reinactments and toff-baiting in the next few years won’t shift that key fact.
141. looks like a hard sell for NPmp today, how do you mangage to convince the electors of Broxtowe to turn out for you when the Attorney General who frames a law, decides that she only broke the rules on a technicality, and has the cheek to stay in her post.
Perhaps the task is made more difficult if the said electors had been alert enough to listen to 5live’s interview/ phone in with the Statesman of the Year. On the other hand the votes may wonder why Obama bumped into the Statesman of The Year in a kitchen, rather than in the foyer of the UN with the world’s press corps in attendance.
150.
Well argued and largely the truth… I enjoyed reading your comments.
156
Colin
Don’t be unkind. We appreciate the politeness, insight and wit that the Scot Nats bring to this site. Where would PB be without their input?
I wake up every morning and rush to the computer in order to read with bated breath the next instalment of the exciting and relevant post they bring to us poor ignorant benighted and unenlightened heathens in England.
We are honoured to have not only a Scots PM and COE but a respected group of thoughtful and impartial observers on not only the Scottish and the British political scene.
OT, but I read it overnight and thought it might be of some interest.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/090922&sportCat=nfl#obama
This sports columnist frequently digresses into science and politics, and this week he has some advice for President Obama.
A couple of extracts:
Barack Obama’s job is not to get applause: his job is to improve the country. But improving the country is pretty challenging, whereas going out and getting applause is a snap. We don’t yet know if Obama can reform health care or negotiate with hostile powers or reduce the national debt; we know for sure he can get applause. It’s disturbing to see him spending so much time and energy chasing ovations, which have zero lasting value, while putting off the real work of reform.
[...]
It’s time Barack Obama stopped giving so many speeches and concentrated on leadership.
88. Chris Huhne was considered somewhat disagreeable by many of his former colleagues at Fitch/IBCA. I’ve always been surprised that he became an MP, though not that he chose to be an MEP. Perhaps he’ll switch back in due course.
141. NPMP is now resigned to defeat on all fronts.
As he sends his foot soldiers into the fray, a tear comes into my eye.
Forward, the Light Brigade
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Someone had blunder’d:
We all know the chief Great Blunderer, he is crying for a meeting with the Great Meessiah at this very moment.
151 Personally I prefer Carwyn, and cant stand Huw.
But as a Plaid supporter I would prefer Huw to get elected as he would drive plenty of voters towards Plaid. Edwina I am not sure - as she does not have a good media image;
143 I don’t know where you see the gloss in favour of Brown in Robinson’s blog post.
“It reveals how keen Labour strategists were to play the Obama and Gordon card before their conference.”
“If they hadn’t been so desperate, this would never have been a story at all.”
“What we do know is that a prime minister in real political trouble faces a press willing to put the worst gloss on most stories and lacks a good enough friend in the White House to lend him some of his charisma.”
So desperation to try to shore up the Obama hearts Brown narrative from Downing Street and then statement that the PM doesn’t have enough clout with Obama to get some support. Pretty damning stuff.
This looks fun:
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/09/labour-scandal-book-published-tomorrow.html
This from Dale
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/09/labour-scandal-book-published-tomorrow.html
Coupled with the supposedly high level resignation (cf Wayne?), could make next week very interesting.
Breathtaking hypocrisy of the day?
Today’s media double standards watch
http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog.php?id=208
164 Ted
I was thinking of this:
“Even without a meeting, Brown could fairly claim that his and Obama’s international and economic agendas are closely aligned - witness their complementary speeches to the UN yesterday.”
And this:
“We also know that by day’s end Obama will have found a way to show how much he values Brown. It will, of course, be too late.”
Perhaps I’m too jaundiced but I felt that Robinson’s blog was soft on what’s happened.
143 & 164 Blimey, even Nick Robinson hasn’t got the heart to ‘big up’ Brown. Can I hear the Fat Lady warming up behind the curtain?
Tell me it is nae soo…!
jgm2 says:
September 24, 2009 at 8:53 am
Dreich (Scots) miserable cold gloomy weather.
I spent six years of my precious life living in fucking Fife. I think we had one summer in that time.
Dreich is the word. There’ll be a reason there are 50 million people in England and 5 million (and falling) in Scotland. And it isn’t purely because they’re bigotted, alcoholic job-dodgers [Que?
].
[Source: http://order-order.com/2009/09/24/obama-too-busy-to-see-brown/#comment-261321
The inter-webby thingy-me-bob is fun (URW excepted)!
165/166. Author, Author!
Could it be Charles Clark?
Vatican: Tony Blair is ‘probable future president of the European Union’
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2009/09/vatican-tony-blair-is-probable-future.html
I certainly think Labour would be better off ‘divorced’ from Plaid,as I am sure most Plaid supporters feel the same!
You’ve almost convinced me to vote for H Lewis.A good row would be better than the bland offering that is the Assembly at the moment.
167
Poor Alastair isn’t happy when the media isn’t dancing to his tune.
No different than the rest of us I suppose……
173, except that the rest of us didn’t write a dodgy dossier or throw Dr. Kelly to the wolves.
But we keep having this argument about the Lisbon Treaty. On and on and…. Tories on the Eurosceptic wing etc believe that the Lisbon Treaty was the same as the constitution, and therefore everyone (incl Lib Dems and Labour) should treat it the same. Many others, not europhobes, believe that there was a fundamental difference (despite containing some similar administrative provisions), which is that it does not carry the same fundamental constitution changing weight as a “New Constitution”. The reason why Lib Dems - and I still have Vote 2004 mugs to prove it - argued passionately for a referendum is that we did not think that we should change effectively the British constitutional situation without a vote of the people. Lisbon is different, and is in the same league (rather less so, actually) as Maastricht and Amsterdam before it. I don’t remember the Tory Govt calling for a referendum over Maastricht. Lib Dems have called for an “In or Out” referendum to “lance the boil” of europhobia once and for all.
There has been a lot of talk about “Federalism” here, and who is or is not a “federalist”. Surely the debate across Europe is much more nuanced than that. Just because someone doesn’t support full scale current Tory europhobia, doesn’t necessarily make them federalist.
171 Blair should be in The Hague, not Brussels.
On Topic: Is Pickles winning the “love-bombing” war?
A horrible thought and the answer is probably yes, helped of course by the nasty parties ad-homonem onslaught.
Off Topic- Re, Dale. All sounds very intriguing, best stock up on pop-corn as this could be a real ding-dong of a Labour conference.
The picture Guido uses of Gordon and Obama is absolutely classic.
And here’s another amazing picture, a satellite image of the Aussie dust storm, with cities and coastline drawn in. Really get a feel for the scale of the storm:
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/australian_dust_storm_space_ge.jpg
I hope Blair does become President. If theres one thing that guaranteed to have people rushing to the exit door of the mad project its the prospect of having the Blairs as their President and First Lady!
175 Yes, it’s amazing what swapping the word “Constitution” for “Treaty” will do…..
175, as an EU-sceptic the term europhobe is as wrong as europhile. I have nothing against the continent, peoples or countries of Europe, only the EU.
The Lisbon Treaty has been described by numerous senior politicians in every country of the EU as being essentially the same as the Constitution. We were promised a referendum and have been denied it by treacherous politicians of the left. When people do get a chance to vote, their decision only counts if it accords with the EU’s own wishes. It’s becoming a tyranny.
That might sound over the top, but what other term could you give for a would-be government that continuously ignores the referenda results of the people it purports to represent, has an unaccountably and undemocratic structure and is so riddled with corruption its accounts have not been signed off for over a decade?
168
I can’t see anything wrong with those comments - they seem fairly reasonable to me in context.
The statement about the speeches is fairly factual, and the prediction, well, it might come true, but even so, the conclusion that it will be too late is spot on.
168 That’s factual though isn’t it - the two speeches were in synch (the Downing St speechwriters will have made sure) and it’s likely Obama will make some gesture, but the killing comment there is “too late”.
I can’t think of a PM so desperate for US recognition and association with the President but not getting that, and so cack handed that this desperation and failure gets known.
Wonder if Cameron is planning a US visit prior to the election?
The prospect of a scandalfest is almost mouthwatering…
I’d forgotten about the timing of her book - I can however remember were I was when I heard about it! Truly gobsmacking revelation.
Re Pickles, yup I think he’s winning - Huhne is just too shouty/obnoxious, in years gone by, I’d have IDd him as a nasty 80s Tory.
The fact he’s a LibDem and so self-righteous makes him even less attractive.
Huhne dealt with it terribly. He should have mocked Pickles and said that it was ridiculous and pathetic. He shouldnt have been agressive, but should have pointed out that it is very easy to say things like ‘we’re the true believers in liberal democracy’ but that he ought to back up what he means.
V dissapointed in Huhne.
175. Tim13: Tories on the Eurosceptic wing etc believe that the Lisbon Treaty was the same as the constitution
Your “etc” includes, for example, Valery Giscard d’Estaing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-treaty-is-a-constitution-says-giscard-destaing-395521.html
149. Fluffy. The squirrels are very big and can run fast though.
Slightly on topic, what’s going on with Huhnes facial expression in the photographs? It looks as if he’s made the mistake of attempting to press his trousers whilst still wearing them!
Lib Dem blogs are usually far more “on message” than Conservative ones IMHO. That is why the LD blogs in the past week have come as a shock. We actually have some raw feelings being expressed. Here is one from Paul Waters a loyalist who is usually a pro-party writer.
http://tinyurl.com/y9wvj6u
“As James (Graham) set outs, our economic policy has been jerked about so much recently that, on the ground, I don’t have a clue what it is. Do we want to cut taxes? Or increase taxes? Cut spending? Cut waste? Do we want a local income tax or have we finally gone all Tony Vickers and gone for Land Value taxation? Or is our economic policy now basically: “What Vince says” ?
Friends come up to me and say “Vince Cable was great on Sky News”. “Great” I reply - “I hope he was able to give you an idea of our latest policies, because I haven’t got a clue”.”
We now have LD loyalists questioning whether Saint Vince has any clothes on!
156. Colin, speak for yourself, we will see what happens when it is put to the test and people get the choice.
Been posted ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8272209.stm
Gordon Brown has been forced to deny suggestions he is slowly going blind.
The prime minister lost the sight in his left eye as a child, but he was asked in an interview on US television if his other eye was now also failing.
Mr Brown, who is in New York for a United Nations summit, insisted: “My sight is not at all deteriorating.”
184: There is a certain strand of self-righteousness and moral superiority which runs through the Lib-Dems. It probably comes from the fact that they never really have to think about the consquences of any policys they dream up.
Have al Beeb have given-up the pretence…?
191. Sounds like another malicious rumour from his own side, like that one about him being a pill-popper and the one about him throwing phones and having a ferocious temper.
184 After putting in some effort in Newbury last time to oust the LibDems, it is really very tempting to put my GE energies into pounding the pavement in Eastleigh. As well as booting out the unbearably superior Captain Trouser-Press, it would have the additional benefit of making Tim’s head explode at getting the “whack-job” in as an MP…
Decisions, decisions…
Another resignation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/sep/24/lady-vadera-may-quit
194 The Gordon is losing sight in his remaining eye stuff was first IIRC by a troll/sock puppet who plagued multiple blogs called Dirty European Socialist - perhaps it shows how such rumours can gain credence just by repetition.
195 What is supposedly wrong with the Tory PPC for Eastleigh?
Pickles would make a great televangelist.
HEAL! HEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! PRAISE THE LO-ARD!
@201:
Isn’t he some anti-vaccination nutjob?
Good Morning Pickles Love Bombing Voters For Nick Palmer Worldwide
Meanwhile …. TGoHF @ 191 - I’m not too sure Brown’s (unusually) straight answer to the ‘blind’ question can be catergorized as being “forced to deny”.
I think you need to dial back the hyperbole clock a tad.
166.
I have not been told who it is. I would say Darling !
199 London Statto
I wonder if this is what Wayne (?) was alluding to earlier?
201 Ah… Still it takes all sorts.
202 more like
HEAL! HEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! PRAISE THE LARD!
175.he reason why Lib Dems - and I still have Vote 2004 mugs to prove it - argued passionately for a referendum is that we did not think that we should change effectively the British constitutional situation without a vote of the people.
Irish law states that any amendments to its constitution can only be done after a referendum. If the Lisbon Treaty didn’t make fundamental changes then why is Ireland having a (second) referendum?
If it changes Ireland’s constitution then it changes Britain’s.
Referendum please!
Morning all
On topic: What puzzles me most about the LibDems over-the-top and personal attacks on Cameron, Osborne and Hague is that, even if you assume they resonate with some voters, they are still counter-productive - because the message they give is not ‘Nice cuddly LibDems, vote for us’, but ‘Nasty Tories, vote against them’. And if you agree with that message, why wouldn’t you vote Labour, in those seats where the message is likely to chime?
The should be love-bombing disaffected Labour supporters, not trying their best to drive them back to Labour. At the same time, they risk alienating reasonable Conservative/LibDem waverers.
Given this and the other disastrous mistakes we’ve seen this week, I’ve given up on any expectation that they will do well. They’re making almost as much of a mess as Labour - arguably more.
205 Thanks for the clarification Wayne.
If it is Darling it will really blow a hole in this Government. Resignation speech anyone?
The Tory PPC for Eastleigh - an extremist!
http://www.mariahutchings.co.uk/aboutmaria.html
I would have thought that if the Tories wanted to persuade Lib Dems they are not a bunch of right wing scumbags then they ought to find someone better than Pickles to do it.
By way of reminder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYl6WW5ypRE
202,
I can’t help liking old Billy Bunter !
205 Wayne - that is my perfect scenario - afterall Darling has form for being *candid* when no one expects it
Now that would be a thermonuclear bombshell, shame it’s less likely than me winning X Factor.
@212:
Yeah, her and her husband are both guilty of helping to perpetrate the great MMR hoax, and are now died-in-the-wool anti-vaccination idiots.
I’d strongly recommend any Eastleigh Tory that doesn’t think kids should die of measles to consider voting for somebody else. I certainly wouldn’t vote for her.
211.
Darling going is looking a bit more likely now that Vadera is rumoured to be throwing the towel in. She worked with Darling closely on the bank bailout plan, she is also very well respected by Darling ! He has praised her on many occassions, interviews etc
212: She’s got a son with autism. In tim’s eyes that makes her a dangerous nutter.
(Or rather her concerns over the MMR jab do).
213. It seems that the frothing smearbot antics are not confined to Huhne…
@218:
She’s a nutjob. She and her husband have been key players in the MMR hoax. She is an enemy of science and rational thought. She has lied and misrepresented the importance of vaccination. Children have died because of the actions of people like her. She is not fit to be an MP.
Comment on Dale about the book
“i had a look around, that No expenses spared, is not published until 05/11, however they have a strange listing on Tesco’s book site for transworld bantam press for 25/09/09. Just says “title unknown”.
This could be a total whopper of a scandal book if they have gone to this length to protect it. Not one sign of what it is anywhere.”
210 Richard, there is no argument. The Lib Dems have made a much bigger mess of it than Labour.
They are an opposition party with all the freedom that gives them. They have no baggage, no record to defend. Events are only opportunities to attack the govt. They have every advantage the Tories have in a recession, if not more given they have no 1990s record to defend. They are united on Europe. They also have a track record on Iraq that gives them a unique voice on Afghanistan.
And for all this, they manage to screw it up. Their launch pad for GE, appears more like a diving board into a piranha pool. And they built it all by themselves.
I am less clear what they are for now.
220 Martin C. Put you down as a “don’t know” for Eastleigh ?!?!
Just thinking about Obama - wouldn’t it be amusing if Cameron met him next week - perhaps in the Foyer of the UN
I’m still laughing at the fact Gordon was anywhere near the kitchens FFS - a gift of satire.
221: If one was to be released…now would be the time to do it.
218 ‘In tim’s eyes that makes her a dangerous nutter.’
Whereas as TIM, making repetitive posts 24/7, 365 a days a year on such far reaching topics as European Nazi’s infesting Brussels considers himself to be perfectly sane?
@226:
Tim’s a very clever poster. We also have to assume, a very bored one with lots of free time.
226
224: I can imagine the scene…100s of secret service milling around, whilst up pop Gordon amongst the pots and pans.
‘Excuse me Barack, my bestest buddy, a quick chat?’
I expect the sunglassed suits didn’t know wether to let him through or shoot him.
143 - Good luck with the by-election Nick! Which ward is it?
224 Plato. “Just thinking about Obama - wouldn’t it be amusing if Cameron met him next week - perhaps in the Foyer of the UN.”
Is Cameron taking on a second job as a cleaner or security guard ??
And there was I thinking Cammo was against MP’s moonlighting !!
213 - you’re right - just look up thread (and on every other thread) to see the lick spittle flecked hubristic Tory boy crap spouted by the vast majority of posters who have never talked to a real voter and are simply spouting whatever shite is being regurgitated by the Cameron war room.
If you dish it out then you should be able to take it and you Runnymede are about the worst in temrs of snide, illinformed, biased pathetic nonsense.
This site used to be worth coming to for informed and sensible political debate - but now it’s nothing but a mouth piece for a few sad, Tory boy wankers who think that shouting down anyone who disagrees with them is ‘debate’.
Give Tim a medal and shut this site down…
220. Yeah, it’s annoying, but tim’s right on this one. In an ideal world people like Maria Hutchins would be screened out in the selection process, but local Conservative associations are in many cases too sympathetic to idiocy.
@232:
You seem very cross. Would you like a hug?
232. froth froth…time for a sedative Falchikov dear chap.
232. Dan: This site used to be worth coming to for informed and sensible political debate - but now it’s nothing but a mouth piece for a few sad, Tory boy wankers who think that shouting down anyone who disagrees with them is ‘debate’.
If you don’t like the site, leave.
234 Martin C. You both seem quite cross - Give each other a hug or get on the Jeremy Kyle show !!
232: Are you considering joining the Lib-Dems? You’d fit in nicely there.
236 If anything Dan understates it.
@236:
No, I like him. He’s funny. Like a pet ferret. Maybe OGH will let us keep him, as long as we promise not to let him crap in the shoes of houseguests?
Laugh of the day (from the Stratton article linked to by TC at 126):
“Though Lib Dems concede the Tories have learnt from their byelection tactics, they think the party is only able to sustain election-winning levels of staff when concentrating on one battle with the Lib Dems, whereas if the Lib Dems have built up a presence across the country, the Tories will struggle.”
@237:
I’m not cross. I’m just in the minority as apparently the only herd-member that is also a fan of tim.
Prince Hal, later King Henry V: Barak Obama.
Sir John Falstaff: Gordon Brown.
FALSTAFF
God save thy grace, King Hal! my royal Hal!
PISTOL
The heavens thee guard and keep, most royal imp of fame!
FALSTAFF
God save thee, my sweet boy!
KING HENRY IV
My lord chief-justice, speak to that vain man.
Lord Chief-Justice Have you your wits? know you what ’tis to speak?
FALSTAFF
My king! my Jove! I speak to thee, my heart!
KING HENRY IV
I know thee not, old man: fall to thy prayers;
How ill white hairs become a fool and jester!
@241:
On what do they base this implausible belief?
Thinking about it Clegg’s always had a nasty side. Putting aside the cacti incident in his youth, there was the acrimonious leadership contest, the petulance in storming out of the Commons during the referendum debate and then breaking with precedent and attacking the Speaker openly just when Martin was fatally wounded anyhow. So the vitriol of the past week shouldn’t come as a surprise. Cameron has a ruthless side but it’s well disguised behind a veneer of gentlemanly civility. Blair hid his behind a persona as an affable, straight-dealing kind of guy. Clinton is a witness to how far charm can take you in politics. Clegg just seems bumptious and full of himself and immature and charmless.
Dan @ 232
Don’t want to pick old chap, but you do seem to be having a conversation with yourself.
You reference 213, the author of which is ….. Dan.
#234, by Martin Coxall September 24th, 2009 at 10:29 am
@232:
You seem very cross. Would you like a hug?
A sad medical case of Irfan Ahmed syndrome: a poster who makes no point but likes to promote himself. I’m off to play chess down the (one of the few remaining Sarf’ Lun’dun’) pub…!
242 Martin C. You were quite animated @ 216 and 220.
You may also find yourself culled from the “herd” with your heresy on ‘tim’.
194 - why should we not have a blind PM, in any event? We have recently had a blind incumbent of one of the great offices of state; and his disqualification from that office had nothing to do with his visual handicap. In the same way, if Gordon Brown was as blind as a mole rat it would not even be a drop in the ocean of his unfitness to be Prime Minister.
@248:
Like tim, I do get animated about vaccination issues. The great MMR hoax was a very sad moment for fans of science and critical thinking. It’s a shame to see adherents like the PPC for Eastleigh apparently being rewarded for their part in one of the more shameful events of the recent past.
245 - I thought the Euro election smear about Tories / pedos that he tried out a couple of times was one of the lowest moves. It was a nasty TimBot-esque kind of claim.
Oh what a shame - Norman Baker isn’t standing down as an MP
“I had decided not to blog this, but seeing that Tim Montgomerie has twittered it, here goes. This morning I was told by two sources that LibDem MP Norman Baker will stand down from Parliament at the next election. One was a Tory source and one was a LibDem source. I put it to a senior LibDem spokesman who checked it out with Baker himself. He described the reports as “entirely fabricated”. That seemed pretty categoric to me so I didn’t run it.”
http://www.iaindale.blogspot.com/
192. “We now have LD loyalists questioning whether Saint Vince has any clothes on!”
The problem with Vince isn’t so much that his economic policies have no clothes but that it’s rather as if he’s gone shopping and thought ‘I like the cut of that suit’, ‘those jeans look nice’, ‘I fancy a pair of comfortable slippers’ and ‘I might need a sunhat’ - all of which might be sensible individually but look a right mess when worn together.
242 no, you’re not alone Martin, tim is fun. He is much more fun when he isn’t spouting stuff about whack jobs and Nazis but fun nonetheless. He is also rather insightful once you pick past the ‘cabinet of expenses cheats’ mcgumbo.
31. Chris Huhne overlooked the basic fact that people in the real world are not impressed by in-house or should I call it hot-house politicking and in so far such things register at all it is generally in a negative way. The obscure Latvian Nazi reference is more likely to remind listeners of one of the downsides of the European Union rather than attach itself in any way to Mr Pickles and the Tory party.
Lib Dems generally need to get away from obsessing about the Tories love bombing campaign or indeed whether Mr Cable followed the correct procedure at Conference by not telling some of his front-bench colleagues about his taxation proposals. Voters don’t give a stuff about such things. It will be hard enough for them at the next GE without allowing themselves to be unnecesarily sidetracked.
Re Brown:
The reporting of the ‘illness’,
the reporting of the Obama snub,
the report of the rapid exit from Bleeding Heart Politician of the Year dinner,
The Clarke attacks, etc., etc. - just before conference -
seem to indicate some sort of concerted effort to put the skids under Brown.
This effort would have to come from within Labour - Cameron and his cronies must be down on their knees every night thanking God for Brown - but they seem to have taken lessons from the people who got rid of IDS.
252 enitrely fabricated…… by the international lizard conspiracy. *ominous music*
Baker = Fox Mulder
249: Blunkett however has been blind since birth, and so has naturally coped with his disability.
Brown (if he if losing his sight, which I’m not saying is the case) would have to deal with a changing situation which would have mental as well as physical implications.
In that situation, there would be questions over his ability, although I wouldn’t say it would be impossible for him to overcome them.
SKY News reporting that one JagLR plant is to close (prob sometime 2010-11) in midlands.
@252:
The thing is, he’s normally right about whackjobs. It may be less entertaining, but sometimes there’s truth in them there smears.
175. So the Lisbon Treaty is not substantially the same as the Constitution?
Hm. It seems some rather important people disagree with you.
“The substance of the Constitution is preserved. That is a fact.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel
“Thankfully they haven’t changed the substance – 90 per cent of it is still there.”
Bertie Ahern, Ireland’s Taoiseach. Referring to the High Representative for Europe, which replaced the controversial post of EU Foreign Minister that the original Constitution would have created, Ahern went on to say: “It’s the original job, but they just put on this long title.”
“Substantially equivalent.”
The verdict of the all-party Commons European Scrutiny Committee on the two documents
“All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but they will be hidden and disguised in some way… [We can get Europeans] to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly.”
Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, President of the Constitutional Convention, the body which drew up the proposed Constitution
“They must go on voting until they get it right.”
Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission
“Let’s be clear about this. The rejection of the constitution was a mistake that will have to be corrected.”
Valéry Giscard d’Estaing
“If we had chosen to have a parliamentary vote last year the constitution would have been easily adopted. It is the method that has provoked the rejection.”
Valéry Giscard d’Estaing once again
“The European constitution isn’t dead; ratification must continue.”
Romano Prodi, former President of the European Commission, now Prime Minister of Italy
“[The no votes were] a demand for more Europe, not less.”
Romano Prodi again
“The constitution is not dead.”
Wolfgang Schüssel, Chancellor of Austria and the EU’s current president
“Europe needs the constitution… We are willing to make whatever contribution is necessary to bring the constitution into force.”
Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany
“I would consider it a historic failure if we did not have the substance of the European constitution in place in time for the next European elections [in 2009].”
Angela Merkel again
“We will reverse the situation… you will see that the cause is not yet lost.”
Jean Asselborn, Foreign Minister of Luxembourg
“[The French and Dutch no votes are] not an end, rather an interruption.”
Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister
“France did not say no to Europe.”
Dominique de Villepin, Prime Minister of France
“I believe neither the French nor the Dutch really rejected the constitutional treaty.”
Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg
“I still believe that ratification of the constitutional treaty… is in the best interests of our country. However I am aware that the best path to ratification would be a speedy procedure in parliament.”
Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka
“Neither the constitutional text nor the ideas contained in it are dead. There’s no doubt that sooner or later the EU will have a foreign minister and a diplomatic service. What is of crucial importance now is that we keep on working as we did before.”
Javier Solana, Secretary-General of the Council of the EU – and EU Foreign Minister in the event that the Constitution comes into force
240 Martin C - As far as I can tell from the article, it’s based on a brilliant idea they have had: sending out a glossy brochure.
250. Martin Coxall: The great MMR hoax was a very sad moment for fans of science and critical thinking. It’s a shame to see adherents like the PPC for Eastleigh apparently being rewarded for their part in one of the more shameful events of the recent past.
I split MMR critics into two groups: those who originated and propagated the idea; and those who (quite understandably, given Blair’s actions) felt that the government was trying to hide something.
The latter were wrong, but understandably so. My ire is reserved for the former group, which includes Wakefield and Hislop.
Is there evidence that Hutchings was in that group?
I agree about tim. He has his wilder moments but given Labour’s current travails I can understand that. When he’s not so partisan (or at least, not so negative), he can be very insightful. Even when he is off on one, he can be good fun (though that’s because there’s only one of him - were there a dozen it would be a different case).
260 some of them yes. Not all of them.
tim is a broad brush psycho-analyst. Therefore there is insanity everywhere.
254 DISWS
“He is also rather insightful once you pick past the ‘cabinet of expenses cheats’ mcgumbo.”
I think you should have said Shadow Cabinet
Anyone who thinks the nutjob Maria Hutching of Eastleigh has changed her anti science conspiracy theories should have a look at the stuff about fluoridation on her website.
Having an opinion against fluoride is one thing.
Lying about the science is another.
Anyone planning to vote for her can get their “Measles on Board” car stickers soon.
Keep the whackjob out of Parliament
255 Rob C - could’t agree more.
I remember reading tim’s references to the Waffen SS when I first lurked and had absolutely no idea what he was wibbling about.
It seemed so bizarre that I thought it was some in-house joke…
Now that it’s been brought into the MSM by Huhne on the Today prog - it really reminded me of how stupid and unpleasant it sounded.
Lots of people who have a passing interest in politics know that the EU is full of oddballs/expense fiddlers and they don’t care one iota.
I’m very disappointed that the LDs didn’t have a good conference and failed to use their moment in the sun wisely.
Just also seen a clip of Milliband and Hillary on TV. first time I’ve seen the dummy bigger than the ventriloquist.
266 I am from the future
267. tim: Keep the whackjob out of Parliament
I didn’t realise you were standing.
255. I think it’s pretty clear a lot of Lib Dems are very angry indeed about the success of the love-bomb strategy. Poor dears.
How long do people think emigre families have to be in this country to become fully integrated in majority society/values?
2 or 3 generations, maybe to have had family who have fought in a war, intermarried, lost your job/house etc?
Or maybe even longer if they come here with an exclusive religion?
Or is my question simply wrong because the well educated emigres tend disproportionately to get into influential positions, and so simply redefine our society values? Is there any additional rights conferred by “time served”?
The reason I think it’s worth considering is that of course Huhne (Czech), the Millibands (Polish,then Belgium) McShane (Polish)and the Brittans (Latvian) all come from mid 20th century mainland europe conflicts and seem to me to still be fighting their fathers’ and grandfathers’ political agendas.
It’s seem strange that the more you think about the Euro politicians (on both sides of the argument) so many of them are emigres, add Vaz, Hain, Hewitt, Stuart.
In fact the only long term Brits I can think of are Hoon, Patten, Alexander and Murphy and suppose you can argue the last three are special cases?
Suppose its a bit of chicken and egg really, but I must say I find it a little irritating.
Poor old Dan, started off OK with ‘Denial’ but then appears to have skipped the Anger-Depression-Acceptance phase and gone straight to frothing loony.
267 Hopefully she’ll win, and it will really wind you up!
232 Is Dan having a conversation with himself?
Can I hear the Fat Lady warming up behind the curtain?
by EdP September 24th, 2009 at 9:45 am
She is at the piano and has cleared her throat and taken a deep operatic breath, and yes her lips are parting and……..
@263:
I agree that most of the venom for the MMR hoax should be dispensed on the media that perpetrated it: the BBC, the Daily Mail and many, many others. This doesn’t excuse the behaviour of those who were swept up in it.
Was she a primary antagonist in the MMR hoax? Perhaps not, but the fact that she was so easily hoodwinked, and has remained an anti-vaccine mouthpiece since strongly suggests there is something deeply suspect about her critical faculties. Do we want any more people like that in Parliament?
276. It’s his best chance of getting anyone to agree with him.
@275:
If I might say so, that kind of thinking is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Tories on the Eurosceptic wing etc believe that the Lisbon Treaty was the same as the constitution,
by Tim13 September 24th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Perhaps you you should add in a number of the key authors who also say there is no significant difference, including an former president of France and a Labour MP.
Neither, yet, is a recognised Tory.
278 What on Earth were the local Cons party thinking of in selecting her?
Seems a very odd choice of candidate, I wouldn’t object if she was into something equally anti-science such as creationism - but nope not a vaccine-denier.
From Guido,
“Despite invitations to all, only one American banker turned up to a meeting with the man who “saved the world” and the global banking system. How ungrateful of them.”
How embarrassing, well I suppose somebody turned up off their own bat and didn’t have to be ambushed in the kitchens!
278: But lest not forget, she is a mother with an autist child.
Does that excuse her? No. But it is understandable that she is emotially invovled in it.
That might make her unfit to be an MP, but I’m not sure she deserves the vitirol which has been dealt out to her.
280 Have you considered that she may have other qualities which make her an excellent prospective MP for the constituency?
282. I’d be far more concerned by my prospective MP being a creationist myself.
And lest we forget - just how many current MPs fell for the Iraq ‘weapons of mass destruction’ con? And how many on the Labour side denied all the evidence and selected Brown as their leader?
@285:
Yes, I accept there may be extenuationg local circumstances. But based on what I currently know about her, there’s no way on God’s clean Earth I’d vote for her.
If Pickles does the love-bombing there will be no water in the swimming pool!
But Mike is right, it is a golden rule of effective politics that you do not throw mud unless (a) the target dropped it (ie it is based in unassailable fact) and (b) you are confident of making it stick. It stands to reason that if the target of your attentions has somehow or other developed a ‘nice’ appearance that you are not likely to be effective if you just decide to ‘take a pop’ now and then. Indeed, doing so is likely to be counterproductive, especially in the short term. Negative campaigning can indeed be very effective but to do so requires it to be consistent, sustained and clever. It also helps if it is fundamentally based upon an honest assessment. I’m not sure the Lib Dems are nasty enough to do negative campaigning properly.
Just for the record, I only think that about 30 per cent of senior conservatives (in both Tory Parties) are nasty evil dishonest people. But enough of the rest nod along with what they do to tar them collectively with the same brush.
Europe was never about people, it was about a bunch of bureaucrats getting themselves and their kin into safe, well-paid, well-pensioned jobs in perpetuity while they play musical chairs at the top table and get to meet like-minded thieves and gangsters from all four corners of the globe.
Before long we will see our Euromasters only on TV, as they are whisked from staged managed event to stage managed event, down streets cleared of people so they don’t have to meet the ‘great unwashed’ at any time in their careers.
They have managed to espouse the worst aspects of the Soviet Politburo while simultaneously adding hypocrisy to the brew
232 - There is plenty of good debate still taking place on this site. You don’t have to read or respond to every post. Eagles do not strain at gnats.
The number of Tory-inclined posters is a function of the political wind. After the election and the Tory honeymoon has ended, we shall get more balance.
As a general rule, my likelihood of voting for a particular political party is in inverse proportion to my exposure to their activists.
231.
“Is Cameron taking on a second job as a cleaner or security guard ??”
It is wise for cloakroom attendants to learn new skills?
290
Politics is always best viewed from upwind…
Give Tim a medal and shut this site down…
by Dan September 24th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Well indeed, the McPoison plan was indeed to make sites who did not toe the line inoperable. Have you joined the conspiracy?
288 - If we take you a typical representative of LibDemmery, then I don’t think there is any reason to worry about their nastiness, or indeed their narcissism quotient.
291 the Union of Cloakroom Attendants have noted your superior attitude and attempts to keep them down, and will remember.
232:
Dan, you REALLY need to get laid mate…
290 ‘As a general rule, my likelihood of voting for a particular political party is in inverse proportion to my exposure to their activists.’
Are we to assume the Lib Dems have lost your vote thanks to TIM’s antics then?
@290:
I think posters often underestimate the variety of opinion expressed in this place; one of the main reasons I come here is to read the views of various flavours of Tory, various flavours of Labour, Nats (Wales and Scotland and England), the semi-aligned and “hang-all-the-politicians” brigade, not to mention assorted loonies of numerous degrees of splendour.
In fact (and curiously, given OGH’s position), the only underrepresented views are those of the Lib Dems. I used to enjoy Yellow Submarine’s contributions (I remember one notable through-the-night discussion earlier in the year), and they are sadly missed.
@298:
Yellow Submarine hasn’t flounced, has he?
299 I thought YS was just really busy at work?
Tory Europe Policy Update.
Prague - Czech President Vaclav Klaus has confirmed that the British Conservative leader David Cameron had sent him a letter on a plan to hold a British referendum on the European Union’s Lisbon reform treaty if the conservatives win next year’s British election and the pact has not yet been adopted. That could throw a spanner in the works of the progress of the treaty, which must be approved by all 27 member states.
According to current opinion polls, Cameron’s Conservative Party is seen as the likely winner of the election, which must take place by May 2010.
Ireland is to hold its own, second, referendum on the treaty next month, after a first poll last year resulted in a ‘no’ vote.
Klaus, an outspoken critic of the Lisbon Treaty, which aims to streamline decision-making in the enlarged EU, could help Cameron to execute his plan by delaying the Czech signing of the pact until the British general election.
Klaus’ signature is the last step required for Czech ratification.
The treaty would become valid only after all 27 EU member states ratify it. The EU hopes that it would come to force on January 1.
While attending the United Nations’ General Assembly in New York, Klaus told public broadcaster Czech Television late Wednesday that he received a letter from the Tory leader outlining the referendum plan.
“That letter was delivered to me … as the evidence that the Conservatives are serious about it. I accepted it as such evidence,” Klaus said.
However, the Eurosceptic president, who said earlier that he would be the last one in Europe to make up his mind on the accord, told the station that the letter is not likely to affect his decision.
“I do not think that it would influence my stance towards the treaty,” he said.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/287035,czech-president-confirms-britains-opposition-want-eu-treaty-poll.html
When ranting about ‘vaccination denier’ perhaps this little snippet about the ‘whackjob’ is worth recording from her site:
She has spent the last thirteen years taking care of her remarkable son John Paul, who was diagnosed with autism, severe learning disabilities and severe, specific language disorder.
She has worked tirelessly to support special schools and to fight for a better deal in education, respite services and speech and language therapy for disabled children.
297 - At the moment I’m not so much a floating voter as completely adrift. Until this week I’d imagined that I’d probably end up voting for the Lib Dems, being the main challenger to Labour in my constituency and since I approve of their general mindset on the EU, defence and foreign affairs. But now it is quite clear that the Lib Dems will prop up Labour in any circumstances that it is remotely plausible to do so, I am completely confused. I may still do so, but since getting rid of Labour is very important to me, the Lib Dems have made it as hard as they possibly could for me to vote for them.
David Cameron is by far the most impressive politician in action at present, but I do have serious concerns about his policies on the EU and too many members of his party think that they were right all along rather than having needed to change fundamentally.
I may do what I did in the EU elections and vote Green as a partial protest vote and partly to get the main parties to engage more with environmental matters, which represent the single most important concern facing us all at present. NB I disapprove of almost every single Green policy that you could name.
My vote is up for grabs, and as I have previously said, I am open to bribery.
If I recall Dan has quite an interesting history.
I too would like to out myself as a “Tory Who Adores Tim”
Actually that’s a really bad acronymn isn’t it?
@301:
An interesting development.
@300: I thought it was a temporary absence, yes.
@303:
I reckon you’ll end up voting Green, like a lot of disgruntled Lib Dems.
303, hmm. If you were rightish I’d suggest UKIP….
English Democrats?
You could always vote Morris Dancer. My policies include firing Ed Balls from a giant space cannon into the heart of the sun, making attractive young women wear school uniforms, and the construction of a small fleet of Death Stars.
304 - Is he the same Dan that Kingston Lib Dems apologised to their conference for earlier this week?
@305:
302 - I feel sympathy for her family situation. But should we really be electing people who take their own personal tragedy and use it, in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are wrong, to justify an active campaign which in fact endangers many children’s health and welfare? A whackjob who became a whackjob for (in part) very understandable reasons is still a whackjob.
305 When two or more of us are gathered together so shall we break cereal and think of him.
178 - No, the Tories didn’t call for a referendum over Maastricht - John Major claimed that winnnig the 1992 GE entitled him to do as he wanted (not that there was anyone standing in 90% of constituencies expressing the contrary view). This is why I didn’t vote Tory in 1997.
Today’s Tories have adopted a different position - so my position towards them is different. Simples.
OT, looks like the EU Commission is going to let allow France give sports governing bodies “betting rights” and take a cut if people bet on their sports. No sign at this point that we’ll have to pay Sarcozy for the privilege of gambling on whether he gets reelected or not.
http://www.gamblingcompliance.com/node/37555
“If eventually approved, France’s plan to allow sports organisers to charge for betting rights could seriously dent operators’ profits in the country. In March the French budget minister Eric Woerth said that 1 percent of all sports betting stakes would be handed over to the sports federations.”
Love-bombing is an interesting short-term tactic. The problems begin when people realise they have been conned. That is what is happening to Labour now. The Tories, if they are pretending to be something they are not (and the idea of Eric Pickles having much in common with anyone who is not on the right is an interesting one), are storing up trouble for themselves in the future. And the thing is: they don’t have to do it, they are going to win easily anyway.
Darling is being interviewed about the PBR - he is not going to resign. Nor I suspect is anyone else.
If the book is embargoed it will probably only contain tittle tattle. Probably about Mandelson is my guess. Anyone else is just meaningless. Oh except Blair perhaps.
I doubt there is anyone who can tell us any more about Brown that most people have not worked out for themselves.
PS - lets not forget Blair - he still needs cutting down to size, otherwise he will be the next EU President. Has anyone told the Irish about this?
310. Neil
Dan Falchikov is the name. Ramper and smear-bot is the game.
293 - Do you think Mike would sell if Ashcroft offered him a decent amount?
303 - “too many members of his party think that they were right all along rather than having needed to change fundamentally”
Yes, yes, yes and a thousand times yes. My fear is that this applies to most Tories.
319 - Would be interesting if Ashcroft then let Mike use on here some of the tories internal polling figures. Might allow us to adjust our betting positions accordingly.
Then again internals might not be that good, especially after what Nick Clegg said yesterday.
320, were they wrong?
If we’d spent less we’d be in a far stronger position now, and the leftish parties are servants of Brussels before Britain.
‘This is why I didn’t vote Tory in 1997.’
And that also influenced the abstentions/protests of many others,
Jaguar to shut one Midlands plant
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8272499.stm
Nice bit of spin there too, no job losses (short term), and 800 new jobs on Mersyside to build the new RangeRover. However, the two midlands factories (which one to be closed is undecided) employ 5,000 workers in Solihull, 2,000 in Castle Bromwich, so clearly there are going to be a lot of P45’s.
168.”Coupled with the supposedly high level resignation (cf Wayne?), could make next week very interesting.”
Blue Rog, yes indeed, are they linked I wonder?
218.”212: She’s got a son with autism. In tim’s eyes that makes her a dangerous nutter.”
Yes, when I remember her being in the public eye, it was for standing up to, and holding Blair and this governments for their policies when it comes to providing decent special needs provision.
I cheered her on at the time, because as a parent I was facing the same uphill and soul destroying struggle in my area. Six months of wandering around with the most incredible sick feeling in your stomach at the thought of your child not getting the place they need in a specialised unit becuase there was not enough to go around. But some would rather you focused on the MMR aspect rather than the failure of the government to deliver on special needs to a parent with a child who actually had autism.
She doesn’t ring a bell as one of the main players in the MMR debate what ever her role was. And she, like Nadine Dorries has become a hate figure to some people because of their beliefs.
309 - The chances of me voting UKIP are… remote. I have spent some time with Nigel Farage’s son, who is a nice lad, so I assume his father can’t be all bad either. But the policies of UKIP are not for me, to say the least.
I doubt the English Democrats are standing in Islington South & Finsbury.
308 - You could well be right. I still have a few months to make up my mind. I’m further from a decision than I was 6 months ago.
325.holding the government ‘to account’
Mandy floundering on the Magna deal, another load of car jobs going.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8272382.stm
318 - Yes, that will be the one the local party apologised to their conference for. I thought it was quite funny actually. I only really caught that moment and Ed Davey’s speech from the conference while channel hopping. My god but Ed Davey was so bad it was funny.
OT: BBC finally has all but one (Abu Dhabi) of the remaining F1 tracks up on its circuit guide.
Interesting to look at Singapore. Few straights, lots of tight corners. I wonder if it being a night race (if memory serves it is the night race, or maybe the day-night race) will give Button (relative to Barrichello) problems heating his tyres. Doubt it, but worth watching.
324 (cont) Should have stressed that the closure isn’t until 2014, but my point was more a load more high skilled car jobs going along with whatever Magna decide to cut from Vauxhall.
317: According to a few comments on Dale’s blog, the ‘book’ is the expenses scandal book written by telegraph journalists.
There could be a new revelation in there, and it would be the perfect time to hit the weekend papers just before the labour conference.
Off topic, the story in the news that will have the most long term importance is this one:
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
This stuff is stunning.
326, aye, an EU-phile voting UKIP would be like a man with a brain voting for Brown. Possible, but bloody unlikely.
Maybe you could back an independent?
I faced this quandry in 2005 when I absolutely wanted to vote but was torn between Tory and independent, knowing it wouldn’t make any difference. (I voted independent, incidentally).
Sky - Vadera resigning
Probably has another job, no sign of a row or anything
332, I imagine it’ll be worse for the Tories than Labour.
330 - One for you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6221146/Hedges-cut-like-Williams-Formula-1-car.html
Vadera resigns
I guess we’ll have years of fun speculating who X is.
Nelson Piquet Jnr accused by ‘Witness X’ in Renault race-fixing scandal
Who is Renault’s Witness X? As the Formula One circus landed in Singapore, switched on their Blackberrys and stepped out into the 88F (31C) heat, it was the question on everybody’s lips.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/renault/6224406/Nelson-Piquet-Jnr-accused-by-Witness-X-in-Renault-race-fixing-scandal.html
332 I thought that wasn’t being published in a few weeks rather than tomorrow?
337, damned impressive. Thanks for the link
I did have a speculative £2 on Vettel at 29/1 for winning qualifying, but no win bit so I withdrew it. Not sure if I’ll try betting on qualifying at any point in the near future, seems riskier than race betting given the lack of foreknowledge.
I imagine it’ll be worse for the Tories than Labour.
by Morris Dancer September 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am
why?
338 All the Sky Twitterers are saying the same - Vadera is going.
Rats, ship, sinking……
I am I right in thinking Vadera is ye of green shoots fame as the economy was tanking?
342, because the Telegraph’s dire reporting of an incredibly important story spent less time on the flipping of Darling and Hoon and Brown’s SKY subscription than it did on eye-catching but far less costly claims like moats. Some MPs (one Tory whose name I forget but who lived briefly in a club because his home-buying was delayed) were treated appallingly badly.
325. ChristinaD
I’ve no doubt that Nadine Dorries is partly a ‘hate figure’ because of her beliefs, but I would suggest that the fact she comes in for a lot criticism has more to do with her; lies, the fact she smears other people without foundation, and that she bases a substantial amount of her arguments on things which are not true and continues to do so even after it’s been pointed out.
Vadera’s timing is rather unhelpful for Gordon - clearly she’s had enough if it couldn’t wait for a week.
345 - Yes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/4244324/Baroness-Vadera-under-fire-for-seeing-green-shoots-of-recovery.html
Hilarious
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/obama-to-meet-bulgarian-deputy-sports-minister-200909242087/
347 - Is it possible to hate a joke?
346 - MP was John Maples.
325 - I think you’ll find it was a Conservative controlled council that she was railing against.
I do hope it’s not about expenses - they’d have to have something really cracking that hadn’t been noticed by anyone else.
And to be honest, I’m bored of expenses - even if they do discover who was rumoured to be having an affair with another MP as originally alleged.*
*Unless it was a member of the Cabinet of course!
Andrew Sparrow on the Guardian has this on his blog re Vadera. Looks like the rumours may be true. All of her private office officals were in an urgent meeting and couldn’t take calls.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/sep/24/lady-vadera-may-quit
I thought she was with the PM in the USA yesterday, so its interesting timing that the leak/rumour started when it did.
Worth betting on this guy for high office. If he survives he is a real contender
http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2009/09/jon-cruddas-turned-down-another-ministerial-job/
352, I do believe you’re correct, Mr. Eagles. He put up a bulletproof defence on Newsnight and I think SKY and the BBC News Channel as well, but the Telegraph weren’t interested in trivialities such as facts or reality and smeared him anyway.
Meanwhile the likes of Hoon got off scot free.
wibbler September 24th, 2009 at 11:46 am More from that Mash article.
“Meanwhile Mr Brown last night attempted to sneak into Mr Obama’s suite at the Plaza Hotel dressed as a Swedish massage therapist, but was easily spotted by Secret Service agents.
As he was dragged away and his blonde wig fell to the floor, Mr Brown shouted: “But I’m the World Statesman of the Year! ”
sums it up.
344. Right on all three counts
@356:
Cruddas will lose his seat.
355 just like the last series of resignations these are all ‘unconnected’
I sense another pathetic failed coup with Miliband senior swatting away the crown as it is about to be piut on his head squealing ‘no, no, no, its not the right time!!!!!!’
356 - Sadly you fear that the Labour Party will choose Ed Balls rather than Jon Cruddas.
What do we think of James Purnell’s chances, I’ve been seriously impressed by his resignation, and some of the welfare changes he was proposing when he was at the DWP, even Frank Field was impressed.
361, apparently Milipede’s conference speech is on Thursday, when most people will have gone home
Further on the Vadera rumour, I understand that its now being put about that she is to take over the institution that looks after HMG’s investments in the banks. If so it less a case of a rat leaving a sinking ship and more part of a planned re-shuffle. Wasn’t one of thos esupposed to be happening soon?
360 - To the Tories or the BNP?
362, Purnell is slimy… but I must admit I do like, somewhat, his general approach and the fact he actually had the nerve to resign properly, rather than mutter constantly behind the scenes but do nothing.
325 - Christina.
We all know people who have autistic children.
The parents I know think that those who perpetuated the MMR hoax who had read the evidence as a result of their childs condition are more to blame than those who peddled it through ignorance.
And if you think she’s changed then forget it, as her lies about fluroidation on her website reveal.
This whackjob is unfit to be an MP.
364 Yes, rumours were that there’d be deckchair rearrangement before the Labour conf.
366 A Purnell book would be very interesting…
On the Jaguar closure, am I right in thinking that Castle Bromwich is in/next to Sion Simon’s Erdington seat?
2,000++ unhappy punters seeing jobs going to Halewood on Merseyside instead. Won’t play well. Worth a few bob on Sion Simon getting the old heave-ho, I’d suggest…
309
I believe FOBS are banned under treaties concerning the militarisation of Space (And can I recommend Air Hostess uniforms as well?)
366 - I loved the line in his resignation
“I now believe your continued leadership makes a Conservative victory more, not less likely.”
For someone who hates the Tories as much as Gordon Brown, that’s really got to hurt.
362 TSE - Purnell will have made himself a very large number of enemies in the Labour Party because of the timing (not the fact) of his resignation. Quite why he resigned the evening before the election, rather than waiting 24 hours, is baffling. He certainly won’t be forgiven by many activists for a long time.
Having said that, he did at least make a gesture, and I’d guess he’ll be an important figure in the post-GE realignment.
@365:
To the delightful Simon Jones. The BNP will put in a spirited performance, but they can’t win Dagenham & Rainham.
369, unlikely to come out any time soon if he wants to return to even shadow high office.
367 tim - I thought you lot were always complaining that parliament is not representative of the population as a whole. Surely that means there should be more whackjobs, not fewer?
O/T Just seen clips from Libdem conference. Lots of talk at the about “values” and “fairness” being important to the strategy for rectifying the UK’s disastrous debt and defecit position.
I have heard lots of definitions for what they actually mean by this but they are all trite or just boll*cks.
But I will tell you what is not fair. Lefties (whether yellow of red - there is clearly no difference anymore)asking me to pay more tax to help sort out their mess.
I have never voted for this shower of a government or gurning OES incompetent once. I have never supported any of their polices and have argued vociferously against the tax and spend destruction of our economy by yet another Labour government.
As such, the only only “fair” approach is to require the morons who have not read their history books and have voted for them three times to foot the bill for this catcastrophic though totally predictable end to yet another failed Labour government.
373 - He resigned as the polls closed didnt he?
I thought it was Hazel Blears that resigned the day before?
There were that many resignations, it’s hard to keep track.
373. Quite why he resigned the evening before the election, rather than waiting 24 hours, is baffling.
Purnell resigned after the polls closed, it was Blears who resigned before.
376 - Dont Nadine and Sion and Lembit fulfill that particular quota already?
@367:
Tim actually wants a representative parliament? That way lies MADNESS.
378 He did - it broke about ten to ten on polling day.
380 - Don’t forget Norman Baker.
More on Vadera from Sparrow at the Guardian:
“11.30am update: She’s going. It’s about as official as it could be without a formal confirmation. When I asked the Downing Street spokeswoman what was going on, she replied: “As you know, we don’t comment on speculation around ministerial reshuffles, but if we have something to tell you at any point, we will do so.”
Asked if Vadera was still a member of the government, the spokeswoman replied: “As we speak, yes.” But she would not say if Vadera would still be a minister this evening.”
I am reminded that thehead of UKFI submitted his resignation last month. As Plato confirms a re-shuffle has been expected forthis week. I’d be surprised if Vadera leaving the government was a surprise resignation in the Purnell mode.
I was told on Monday from a VERY GOOD SOURCE that a very high level member of the government would resign on the eve of the Labour conferance. I have not been able to contact my source this morning to confirm whether it was Vadera and she has done it earlier. However he did say a Senior Cabinet Minister, so I am still expecting it to happen and I still think it could be Darling !!
378 TSE - Oops, yes, my mistake - as you say, one loses track…
Forget my previous post!!!
377 Something I never heard mentioned once at the LibDems conference was the notion of “wealth creation” - the only thing that can turn our economy around without the need for “savage” cuts.
I don’t expect to hear much of it from Labour either…wealth redistribution yes; but wealth creation? Alien notion.
383. And so many others…people with obsessions about Freemasons, Jews, flying saucers, United States of Europe, World Governments…
Reshuffle while Gordo is out of the country, seems an odd way of doing government business.
373
I would also think he has acquired enemies through simply resigning.
He was saying what they all thought, but cowardice likes company and another’s courage can chafe worse than your own hair-shirt.
All this about the MMR “hoax” is grossly unfair; it is a hoax in hindsight. It looked a runner at the time - I know that because I have children who were due the jab at the time. They had it but it was not an easy decision. You have to remember that the thalidomide story started as a nutjob theory held by precisely two doctors. It didnt end up that way.
389 - Sorry meant to say PLANNED reshuffle….
388 Is there an MP obsessed with UFOs? I know Lembit is keen on asteroids…
Rats to left of them
Dregs to right of them
Who can stop the Tory Brigade now
(answer: the Euro-nutters)
389 But real PM Mandy is still here to decide who gets what jobs…
380, 383, 388 - Even allowing for those examples of a few token whackjobs, I’m not we’re up to a representative quota. Maybe the Equalities Office could advise on the target.
367.tim, I never bought into the myth about the MMR link with autism. And I am only too aware of the implications for everyone when the herd immunity drops below acceptable levels. But, I watched the whole sorry mess unfold in the media with a very keen personal interest. But vilifying this woman is not going to deal with the fundamental problems that have arisen, nor will it avert the blame from where it really belongs.
I have said it before, you need to learn to empathise more with the group you are trying to persuade. Treating individual parents of autistic children in this way achieves the opposite effect. And as for parents of autistic children, they have a life time to contemplate special needs provision in this country, and no, they won’t remember or seek to blame her for this mess.
I can’t describe how angry I am at the lack of funding where it matters in Autism.
367:
Yes Tim, I probably agree, but how many of our present MPs are nfit to be mps? By the way, what exactly is a “Whackjob”? It seems very expressive. Does it imply physical violence?
390 That is a very incisive observation - and very true.
If Purnell did a book, it would be horrific for Labour - perhaps he’ll try an SDP Mk 2.
Unlikely, but TBH my credulity snapped over what MPs and HMG will do over dodgy dossiers/expenses/Libya.
@391:
I’m not so keen to exonerate the media for their behaviour as you. The media knew full well what they were doing, setting aside any concerns of rigour or serious intellectual discourse in favour of a good, old-fashioned health scare. They DID NOT CARE whether it was true, or who would get hurt along the way. All that mattered was pushing the fear.
It was a hoax in the the most unpleasant meaning of the word.
Frankly, rather than paraphrasing, I should just let Dr Goldacre do his lovely thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfheO9H8CD4
Guido reporting that rumour is Ali Campbell will be back on board the Gordo Team Bus for the GE campaign. If that is true, definitely going to be one of the dirtiest GE ever.
396 - yeah, let’s elect Tim to parliament, that’d boost the number of whackjobs in parliament.
Let’s face it anyone who believes that Tony didn’t lie in the Iraq dossier……
396.380, 383, 388
If parliament is to be representative of the adult population 20% of its members should be functionally illiterate and 46% should be incapable of doing basic arithmetic. Though, judging by recent performance that last target may already have been met.
401 Well, if working on re-electing Gordon doesn’t cause him to have another breakdown, then he’s truly beaten the “Black Dog” of depression….
403 - “incapable of doing basic arithmetic”
I think the we’ve already had those MP’s, they’ve been working in the treasury since 1997.
Remember, Alastair Darling lost £540bn in a year!
@388:
See also: wingnut, moonbat, loon, fruitloop, mentalist, slot badger, crackpot, quack, nutter, small bean regarder, chronic Basildon donuts, Mrs Beeton’s Cookery Corner, idiot.
393.
I KNOW MILLIONS OF VOTERS WILL BE GIVING LABOUR MPS A “UFO” AT THE NEXT GE
401 - Ali Campbell, lead singer of the UB40?
Oracle - “so clearly there are going to be a lot of P45’s.” I hope not.
And its being reported that there will be no job losses. Now that COULD mean no forced job losses but the report is plain ‘no job losses’. Lets hope so. But JLR do not produce lots of cars - when say compared to BMW/Merc, so its commercial future must be insecure if it keeps losing money. The Halewood jobs are to build a new baby Range Rover - presumably with some green hybrid technology. Personally I find it hard to see this car making any sense, but again I hope I am wrong.
It seems to me sensible to rationalise its production in Midlands, but in the long terms I would have thought it would lead to fewer jobs and in the short run to cost money - though the spare site should have some value.
Jaguar need to produce cars people want and John Redwood seems not to like his new one.
From Telegraph,
“The news is said to have leaked after the minister’s new employer contacted the Cabinet Office seeking a reference”
Also, the mmr debate never was a debate. The antis never had any sensible data to support a case. As anyone who has read “Bad Science” will know a lot of the blame must lie with bad (terrible) newspaper writing and our own ignorance of science.
Wakefield was not to blame. He was just one practitioner in the community of science research. It is the global and social nature of science that it tends to be self correcting and that functioned well there. The international community of science is in principle truly democratic.
I want another post from Dan - go on fella you know you have it in you.
9/10/11% lead to get a Conservative majority of one??!!
391 - If it “looked a runner at the time” then you didn’t read anything.
There was never ANY evidence.
This stuff isn’t partisan by the way, I wouldn’t touch Michael Meacher or Norman Baker with a bargepole eith
There is only 1 type of MP – those that don’t understand binary…
396. There surely aren’t enough Diana conspiracy theorists for a start.
414 - You’re wrong in one respect Tim when you say there was never any evidence.
There was flawed evidence.
403 I think the House of Commons already exceeds those targets.
@411:
What Wakefield did was unforgivable. Yet, the Media’s rather pathetic attempts to claim that somehow he and HE ALONE was able to foment a decade-long, global media hoax seems rather questionable.
I can understand why the media are keen to exonerate themselves for their behaviour. We should not allow them to get away with it.
412 - Any more posts from Dan and we’ll have the Kingston Lib Dems apologising to pbc readers as well as the Lib Dem conference!
411 - The Mail is doing the same now with the cervical cancer vaccine, nothing to do with the evidence, its even running a “pro” campaign in Ireland and an “anti” campaign in the UK.
http://www.layscience.net/node/507
409 - As I understand it, the reported no job losses is in “the short term”, due to an existing agreement between TATA and the unions. This plant is to close in approximately 5 years.
@417:
The point is, there was one set of falsified evidence (which the media pushed as ABSOLUTE TRUTH), and years and years of contra-evidence, both from before and after Wakefield’s falsification, which the media maliciously IGNORED, because it didn’t fit their desire for a massive and potentially deadly health scare.
Wakefield was simply wrong. Further tests and measurements fairly quickly discovered that. All scientists may and sometimes do get things wrong.
@424:
Wakefield was more than just wrong. He falsified evidence for money.
417 - No, you’re wrong.
Even Wakefield research didn’t suggest a link between Autism and MMR vaccine, it was only at the press conference given to launch it that he floated the idea.
Of course we now know he was in the pay of Solicitors pushing vaccine damage cases.
Dan’s the man.
Oh god we aren’t on MMR jab again are we, head, desk, thud. Haven’t we done this to death?
425. Sounds like at least one very senior politician I can think of.
Re Vadera, the BBC is now reporting she is leaving government to go to a role in the public sector. So the rat leaving ship theory now looks most unlikely.
I wonder if Wayne’s informant is correct and there is a bomb set to go off. I doubt it, but one can live in hope.
430 - Depends what the “public sector” job is, and how the story pans out about how she left. The Telegraph at least for the moment are running the angle that nobody knew she was off until this reference request appeared from her future employer, which doesn’t exactly suggest an ordered and expected move away from the government.
420 What was the apology about?
Blair didn’t help by pleading the 5th over Leo’s jab either.
414 that is just silly; really silly. Wakefield published in the Lancet in 1998. Do you think the Lancet publishes articles which don’t cite lots and lots of primary evidence which is made available to their peer reviewers? I think you may be autistic in that you lack a “theory of mind” - ie you haven’t grasped that other people at other times make decisions on a different and less complete set of evidence than you have now. I can tell that you have read Goldacre’s book and yes it is very obvious now that the thing was a disgrace and yes we NOW know that data was falsified so it is NOW obvious that that data should be disregarded as evidence. Before we knew it was falsified the rational approach was to treat it as highly compelling on the basis tht the Lancet knows more about medical research than you or I.
BTW I see that Hills have restored their market on Baroness Scotland leaving by the end of 2009, at 9/4.
Personally I’d say that is still good value - I’d put it at a 50% chance.
420.Neil, any links to this story going?
432 - I swear I was only channel-hopping rather than watching all the coverage of the conference! But the Kingston Lib Dems were going through their record of success (as they see it
) for the conference and also mentioned a long list of high profile Lib Dem MP’s and activists that first cut their teeth in Kinsgton. At the end of that list they added “and Dan Falchikov, we’re sorry about that..”. Quite amusing. Nearly as amusing as the facial expressions from Ed Davey in his speech.
This is the Liberal Democrats room 101 -
http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2009/09/david-cameron-meets-exliberal-democrats-who-explain-why-they-have-joined-the-conservative-party-.html
One day Dan will be in that room telling that camera’s why he loves the conservatives so!
430.
I spoken to my mole and he says that her resignation was not expected ! He still insists there is a big juicy RESIGNATION to come on Saturday night to hit the Sundays !!
re 303. “My vote is up for grabs, and as I have previously said, I am open to bribery.”
I stand to be corrected but you might be committing a criminal offence and I might be culpable by allowing this to be published.
426 TIM, do you know Chris Huhne in a personal or professional capacity?
431: Oracle @ 12:28
I struggle to find the referencs story believable. It was on the blogs earlier this morning so the Telegraph, whose journalism these days is very poor, is probably just repeating what it has read. If you are thinking about employing someone in the Cabinet, a very public figure, for what reason would you seek a reference?
A great shame that Shriti Vadera was not male. At least we would then have had a Lord Vader(a)
437 Ed Davey is forever Phil Collins to me - his speech was hilariously Am Dram over acting.
442 Some HR numpty who doesn’t know who she is and is following a process I expect.
444 - Those eye-brows, those facial expressions!
440 - Ooh er. I think I’m OK if I’m the bribee. The briber might be in trouble though. I suppose I might be procuring the offence.
434 - Wrong.
The research published in the Lancet did not claim a link.
It said
We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue. If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988. Published evidence is inadequate to show whether there is a change in incidence.
At the press conference Wakefield asserted his belief that there was a link AGAINST even his own rigged research’s findings.
@434:
You’re missing the point. Nobody is claiming that the Lancet did anything wrong, and they certainly had no way of knowing what Wakefield was up to.
However, the great MMR hoax was a media creation, not a creation of the medical profession. Appeals to the authority of the Lancet does nothing to exonerate the media of their promulgation of the hoax.
439: Wayne @ 12:35
Thanks. I do hope your source has it right. In fact I’ll just go an say a little prayer that he or she has. Might be worth sacrificing a goat, do you think? Regretfully there are no virgins around here?
@450:
regretfully there are no virgins around here?
I wouldn’t be so sure of that.
Wayne, you might be dissapointed:
http://www.labourlist.org/its_bllocks_alistair_darling_comes_out_fighting
440.Mike, did you catch the Daily Politics today? Big discussion about the polls and implications for the individual parties. Would be interested in your take on the discussion.
439 Are the rumours true that Wayne’s “mole” is on his left buttock?
442 - I don’t particularly buy it either, my point was more how the media will report it. The BBC appear to be firefighting the story as we speak.
******* Betting Post *******
Not another boring betting post on the Irish referendum surely?
Well yes actually. Is there not a stark inconsistency between Paddy Power’s 1/25 odds on an overall “Yes” vote and the fact that they continue to make the 50%-55% band the 15/8 favourite, closely followed by the 55%-60% band at 2/1.
With such skinny odds on the “Yes” outcome, they must feel certain that this option will win by a country mile. In such circumstances, it seems that the value is to bet on 60%-65% at 3/1 and/or 65%-70% at 9/2. Combining both these bets for an equalised return produces odds of 1.32/1. This looks like value to me.
Afternoon all,
It seems Craig Murray is unimpressed with the Libdems performance this week:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/nick_clegg_ambi.html
At the last general election the Lib Dems under the excellent Charlie Kennedy offered a viable, radical alternative. At the coming election they will offer Clegg’s carefully crafted attempts not to offend Tory England. As the party has grown, and as the allowances of public money for MPs’ and MEPs’ staff have created a parisitic army of the paid ambitious, the Lib Dems have become merely slaves to the worship of power. I can think of no reason to vote for a party led by Nick Clegg.
BETTING POST
The Lib Dems have to be value at 4/6 with paddypower.com to keep Rochdale after this sorry affair. Also 8/13 with victorchandler.com and 4/7 with skybet.com.
http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/30065/former-mayor-quits-labour-party-over-danczuk-debacle
452 Or of course it could be exactly the opposite - ‘we can’t if only the day after…’
Oh please let there be some fun ahead.
*** BREAKING NEWS ***
I just had a Double Decker. It was disappointing. They were better when they had raisins in them.
460 I hope you twittered that.
452.
I saw that this morning but I can’t see who else it would be, whoever resigns is not going to get the crown anyway but at least they can come out with some dignity that just might help them to find a city job after the GE …. Darling and Brown hardly speak.
Maybe David Millipede could do it, letting ED take the crown !
447. From the corrupt practices act of 1883
‘ any person who, before, during, or after an election, by himself or by any other person, either directly or indirectly, gives, or
provides, or pays, wholly or in part, the expense of giving
or providing any meat, drink, entertainment or provision
to, or for, any person, for the purpose of corruptly
influencing that person, or any other person, to give, or
refrain from giving, his vote at the election ; or, on account
of his having voted, or refrained from voting, or, being
about to vote, or refrain from voting, shall be guilty of
treating.
And every elector who corruptly accepts the
same will also be guilty of the same offence’.
AND WHERE IS HATTY - VERY VERY SILENT !!!
456 PfP - That seems like sound reasoning.
463 - Oh how disappointing.
452. Call to oust PM ‘bollocks’ says Darling
I think Darling’s taken to the concept of issuing a shermanesque statement with a bit too much enthusiasm.
466. Sorry mate. Oh for the good old days of being a voter in a borough with a tiny electorate…
464 Wayne… Top tip.
Three options
(1) Put up some hard evidence for your rumours
(2) Show you value your own rumours with evidence of bets
(3) Button it ’til you have something to say.
460 - When did Double Deckers have raisins in them? Not in the years I have been consuming them!!!
Lady Vadera set to leave the government for G20 job
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/sep/24/lady-vadera-may-quit
Not quite the “public sector” that the BBC reporting, more legging to a cushy world stage job.
466 You’d only be guilty if you corruptly accept the bribe. But as I understand it, you were proposing to accept the bribe openly, transparently, and honestly.
At most a ‘technical breach’.
471 - Sorry? In what way is a job with the G20 not a “public sector job”? It isn’t exactly private sector! And in fairness, I doubt it’s that cushy.
464. Indeed I was pondering that we are only 3 days away from the party of Government’s ‘last chance’ Conference and apart from Labour’s SNAFU (Minister’s in doo-doo, Minister’s resigning and Brown being Brown) there is virtually nothing about the coming week and no Labour presence in the media. What’s going on?
449 no you are misunderstanding my point. i am saying that the Lancet piece constituted evidence which a lay person could legitimately take into account until it was withdrawn. To say that there was never any evidence is simply wrong. and to call someone a nutjob for taking it into account is just despicable. and 448 the paper quite clearly implies the possibility of a link which requires further investigation. You just aren’t used to reading academic papers which tend to err on the side of caution, rather than calling other peple “whackjobs”. If you think it said there is no link at all, at a time when no one previousl believed in a link,why was it interesting enough to publish at all?
Michael Martin at his WSJ blog speculates about this mystery book that is about to be published. He helpfully provides his own fun list of the runners and riders (with added odds) who might be about to spill the beans. Wonder if John Reid has disappeared for a long weekend somewhere nice? Enjoy.
Who will spill the beans on New Labour?
@469:
That seems unnecessarily rude and uncharitable. If you choose not to believe Wayne, that’s fine. No need to be arsey about it.
474: Gearing up for the snap election announcement
471. So if that’s true then it certainly brings to mind rats and sinking ships………
458 HenryG - Good spot. It looked very good for the LibDems even before this.
re 453. Not seen any TV today but will check that out on catch-up.
Just got back home after a long drive from Northumbria.
478 If they were surely they would be pumping out ideas? It’s as if the air raid warning has been sounded and they are all huddled in their bunkers waiting for the bombs to be dropped…….
477 Rude yes, unnecessarily rude no. Just trying to increase the signal to noise ratio of the site. What Labour does or does not do this week is possibly the most important thing this year. Would be nice to have quality information. If Wayne has got it, he should demonstrate it.
NEW THREAD
473: Sir Norfolk Passmore @ 12:57
“And in fairness, I doubt it’s that cushy.”
It probably isn’t. All that first class international travel, living in some swanky apartment paid for by taxpayers, having to drink vintage champers and at the same time hold down a job which involves organising meetings, going to meetings, and making sure some minion sends out the agendas and supporting papers and distributes the minutes. Running a secretariat for the G20 would be a hellish job.
The Valera thing though does raise issues about Peerages. If she got the peerage to become part of the government to do a job, why does she keep it after leaving? Why should she have the benefit of the title for the rest of her life?
NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD ****
Will Nick Soames Join Eric Pickles For A Lovebombing Duo ??
482 You think Brown going for a snap election ISN’T the equivalent of the bombs dropping on many of them?
Summat’s up…
481.Thanks Mike, be great to hear your take on it. Hope you enjoyed your break.
458 Good spot Henry! The LibDems looked like cracking value at 4/6, even before this story, with Baxter having them almost 8% ahead of Labour in his projection. I’m on.
464- Hatty is going ot be on shouting time this evening
458 Thanks Henry
I was already on at 5/6 but topped up happily at 4/6 following that useful information.
148 Londonstatto.
That poll was not from Coir. I was discussing canvass returns being reported by Coir. They do not have a history of exaggeration or misrepresentation.
They claim NO is pulling ahead.
In Ireland the elaborate hoax is often not the little guy talking on the street, but the main media channels controlled by big business.
Such things could never happen in the UK of course !!!
Mike Smithson gets very confused in Ireland as he can’t believe that the MM can be so blatantly dishonest, and not lose any face. He will be in the money this time though as he has put his money on the NO side. He’s feeling very nervous doing so in the face of the MM’s overwhelming propaganda efforts.
The Irish, it seems, are becoming propaganda immune. After 36 years they can at last see through the EU’s game. Britain next !
On topic: The argument seems to be that the Tories should be uniquely immune from serious criticism. When Cameron employs a driver in order to show off his green cycling, it would be gross lese-majeste for his political opponents to make mock.
The truth is, of course, that the Tories have been leaving open goals like this for years. And Labour have been routinely missing them. That’s because Labour are too demoralised to notice.
Now at last somebody is not missing the open goals. Tories, get used to it!
The Lib Dem “strategy” is poor but hey thats fine by me! Basically they are reverting to their left wing instincts and rather than calling the govt to account are attacking the opposition to the govt. In so doing they are exposing the huge muddle that is at the heart of the Lib Dems and ensuring people see they are incoherent and divided. The activists may feel happy with the “strategy” but the centre ground voters will hate it. Will core Labour voters be attracted - well in short, no! They won’t vote Lib Dem or believe the left wing overtures of a marginalised party, they will just stay at home. In short the Lib Dem “strategy” is a double negative.
actual uncertainty royal concentrations net