Are shares in Mandelson being over-sold?
June 30th, 2009
Is he anything like as smart as his billing?
Yesterday’s big statement, Brown’s latest re-launch, is the first such major government move since Lord Mandelson was promoted to his unique new position in charge of just about everything.
So how come it got such a terrible press this morning. How come that the work of the “great communicator” failed to add the “Mandelson magic” to the programme? Where was the skilled rhetoric, the thread that would bind it together, or the big idea which would set it apart from previous relaunches?
Quite bluntly if Mandy is so great why didn’t we see something of it yesterday? Am I being unfair in beginning to wonder whether his “great gifts” have been somewhat oversold?
Mandy came to prominence, it will be recalled, during the final years of the Major government when Labour was being presented with one open goal after another. Then it was easy - but that’s a long time ago.
Now the world is a bit more challenging and I just wonder whether Mandy is up to it? It’s one thing to keep a disillusioned cabinet on board, like he did on that dreadful first weekend in June, but coming up with a broad plan and big idea that will resonate with voters and help Labour get out of its hole is another.
I was underwhelmed by his appearances yesterday. He couldn’t seem to hack it when interviewers were on the offensive and came over as petulant in the extreme. Am I missing something?
Note: I’m travelling today and this is a post I prepared earlier.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Ninth.
as the old adage goes…
you can’t polish a……
Well, you can lie about it of course. and that what Labour is doing.
Over-bought, surely?
FPT:
437. It’s a fair question though. This government has done more damage to the UK, in almost every possible way, than a vile occupying power could hope to do in the same 12 years.
They have ruined the economy and left us permanently diminished. With their immigration policies they have made large areas of our cities uninhabitable. Social mobility has got.. wait for it… dramatically WORSE.
They have killed half a million people in an illegal war. They have left the UK divided as never before, and their awful constitutional changes mean Britain - the most stable and succesful “nation state” for 300 years - might actually break up.
Crime is rife. Unemployment is shooting up. The currency has just collapsed in value. Education is a mess. Trillions have been spent on health - leaving us potless - with no apparent effect whatsoever.
They have presided over the most grotesque episode of corruption in British political history: Expensesgate. Dozens of MPs and Ministers have had to resign - from the party that promised to be whiter than white. They leave parliament as a whole devalued and held in contempt; they also lied to the people on the most solemn of promises: a referendum.
Our army is now laughed at for the first time in a thousand years. We have been overtaken, economically and militarily, by our closest rivals - France. We are being forced to unilaterally disarm, not because of some moral principle, but because LABOUR SPENT SO MUCH MONEY, THEY HAVE NOT LEFT US ENOUGH CASH TO DEFEND OURSELVES.
The list goes on. It is, when you see it in the round, quite extraordinary. They are tra1torus and swinish incompetents. Everything they have touched has turned to dreck. Including Britain.
I weep for the country that has these desperate bastards in power. And for that reason I ask, are we allowed to just throw them out now?
Why do we need to wait for an election? Do we need more proof that these people are dangerous vermin? Enough.
Labour don’t need to be thrown out of office, they deserve to be lowered, en masse, immediately, into a vat of hydrochloric acid, dissolving flesh and bones for all eternity. And what remains at the end can be fed to maggots. If they’ll eat it.
OK, I feel better now. Off to do some work. Ta-ra.
Labour got an easy ride in the mid 1990s, nothing the Tories said would change that. It’s simply a reversal of that with the Tories now in the driving seat.
Educationx3, everyone knew it was vacuous stuff, but no one challenged it.
Whiter than white, etc - and the list goes on.
It is important to note of course that during the hey-day of Labour spin-mastery two things were present.
1) A on-side media, which were willing to see Labour favourably.
2) A incompetent, divided opposition.
Both of those are no-longer there, and like Brown’s ‘economic genius’, it was built up in times which would have been easy for anyone.
4 Looks like that sequel is going to be looooooooong.
He tried to do to Evan Davies what he did to Marr and came across as dreadfully supercilious. mandelson is good at what he does, but I think even his skills aren’t up to polishing Gordon Brown. As the Tories have been saying for a year, the cupboard is bare and therefore Labour can offer only meagre pickings rather than big new ideas which cost lots of money.
Mandelson is still held in awe by many in the political class but he is not popular outside Westminster and it would be a mistake for Labour to use him too much as a spokesman. He is best deployed behind the scenes: the problem for labour is they have very few credible high-profile media performers left.
5 You must be pretty peeved that Dave is equally unchallenged and coming up with his own whiter than white.
I think Mandelson has over-sold himself. And nobody is buying now. So he has passed his sell-by date. Shop-soiled goods. And the penny has not yet dropped with the Labour leaders.
Mandelson’s image is based on many overlapping lies, just like the Government’s. Gordon and Balls are now resorting to outright, in your face, shameless lies to maintain the original lie. Wouldn’t surprise if Mandy is doing the same.
Yes, Jonathan, I am also very peeved that Cameron is getting away with blue murder.
9-Actually I am peeved that Dave has had to “decontaminate” the brand. As far as I could see, there was no need!
Oh well, off home now!
Best blog post I’ve read in ages:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3725688/talking-balls.thtml#comments
9. Both sides think the other gets/got an easy ride from the media. The truth, as ever, lies somewhere in between. Cameron has not been subjected to really detailed scrutiny, but then what opposition really is.
For much of his time, however, he has operated in a reasonably hostile media environment. traditional Tory papers, such as Telegraph and Mail, have been distinctly iffy about Cameron and modernisation. He has gradually, and skillfully won over the Times and Sun, while neutering some of the anti-Toryism in the Guardian and Independent, although the Guardian columnists are still inveterately (sometimes viciously) anti-Tory. The BBC has been kinder to Cameron than it was to other Tory leaders but it is hardly what one describes as supportive until relatively recently when they have got fed up with Brown.
Cameron has had to undergo some pretty fierce media criticism particularly in summer 2007 and in Autum 2008 and has come through them pretty well in the end.
All in all then, Cameron has been challeneged although not as much as many Labour types would like: no surprise there then, just as many Tories still think labour ministers get an easy ride, particualrly from the Beeb.
“5 You must be pretty peeved that Dave is equally unchallenged and coming up with his own whiter than white.”
I think a government that comes in tested and forced to measure up to some level of standard will achieve more than one that gets in by default.
Labour had it easier than the current opposition but its still been easy for both.
It is amazing the BNP aren’t doing BETTER than they are.
Look at this list of Britain’s Most Wanted:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch/wanted/index.shtml
Two ethnically indigenous criminals out of eight.
Labour: Importing Crime and Murder Since 1997
The only mastery of the media that Mandelson has ever had is in briefing against his own side.
He is an over-rated pompous nobody who has only ever caused dissent and scandal.
Brown ran up the white flag the moment he brought him back from Brussels.
I can’t believe that just 12 short years ago I thought NuLab were the bees’s knees!
This recent “honesty/trust” theme just renforces the impression that Dave’s running the Tory party like a 1990’s New Labour tribute act.
Looking forward to Dave claiming to be a “pretty straight guy”.
4 I more or less agree. Living in Britain in the past 12 years has been like living in an occupied country.
Look at what he is working with.
The heir to Machiavelli he may be, but the fact is even Mandelson cannot plait sawdust…
I posted this at the end of the last thread:
438 Tim why not just go the whole hogg and sterilise them? Most of us on here think you should be.
by Easterross June 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
As for Mandy, I have never heard any Tory concede that he was great at anything apart from self-publicity and lining his own pockets at taxpayers expense, whether that be rebuilding his constituency home just as he was resigning as an MP or in building a wonderful euro funded nest egg for himself. Let’s see Lord Mandelson’s entire financial interests over the past decade made public.
Mandy’s biggest problem is the shadow cast over his life by his grandfather Herbert Morrison. He has always wanted to equal or better his grandfather’s achievements. Had we lived in earlier times his grandfather could have simply sent him to Eton and then arranged for a hereditary title to pass to him which he could then have used as his entry into a lifetime in Parliament doing very little and achieving even less. Since this avenue was not open to him, like the cuckoo in the nest, he inflicted himself on the Labour party, changed it with the aid of his pals Gord, Tony and the late John Smith and then hung around long enough until he achieved he might otherwise gain through the hereditary principles applying in earlier generations of political dynasties.
Mandy has always had an exaggerated view of his own ability. The only oddity is that so many others in the media have gone along with it. It’s realy good to see more of Balls on the news - should easily be worth another 5 points in the polls … for the Tories!
20. Should Cameron simply ignore the fact that Labour are telling lies about their plans for after the election?
19 Sunil
I thought Blair was an odious creep from day 1. Does that make me feel any better?
No
On topic, Mandelson is just shudderingly awful, what a horrible human being. But he does seem to have certain Machiavellian political skills, and can quite convincingly say whatever he thinks is expedient without any need to believe what he is saying, or any reference to his previously held beliefs. Impressive in a way.
He can’t be that smart, he’s certainly backing a king-size loser right now.
21. I seriously believe the Tories must take steps, when in power, to destroy Labour FOREVER. The last twelve years can never be allowed to happen again.
They must demolish Labour’s funding, rejig the electoral system so there is no bias, solve the WLQ so Labour cannot use its Scottish heartland in England, and they must ruin the Guardian and reform the BBC to get rid of pro-lefty bias in the media.
Thatcher destroyed socialism, but it turns out the spendthrift welfarist authoritarianism of New Labour was even worse. So Labour must be annihilated forever; Cameron will have a window of two years to do this. He must seize the chance.
We don’t have enough money left to defend ourselves. That’s what they have reduced us to.
It is somewhat incedible that Labour MP’s havent gone native in large numbers. Do they really believe that Gordon Brown can save them their seats? It strikes me as a huge ask.
Bear in mind though that the most embarassing announcement so far as Mandelson is concerned was scrapping Royal Mail privatisation, and that has had significantly less coverage thanks to him blowing the gaff on the CSR and the slow-motion car crash that was Brown’s draft Queen’s speech.
Maybe it all went exactly as he planned.
I have been reading “The Black Swan” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, (just love that name) and while the premise of the ‘Unknowable Surprise ‘ can be streached, I wouldn’t be surprised at a number of Black Swans appearing with explosive ease as the GE approaches.
Madasafish’s earlier comments on the economy are correct in that the ever moving mountain of cheap money will have it’s potent say in the not too distant future.
perhaps Mandelson has a secret plan to unite Labour and defeat Cameron - maybe he’ll have a ‘deathbed conversion’ and join the Conservative party
I said when Mandy came back that he would find it a much more challenging world in which to operate, because of the waning power of the dead-tree press (the editors of which he used to hold in a vice-like grip) and the ferocity of the blogs (over which he has no control - and through LabourList, showed he couldn’t even get in the game).
Every time Mandy starts to speak, the blogosphere can review what he is saying, analyse, find the weakness in his case - and then point and laugh, all before Mandy could sit back down again. The blogosphere can’t be shepherded within the Grid - and has proved to be very largely hostile to the given Labour
Lie Line.Plus Brown has given him the shittiest of messages to try to promote. Tony would never have left him this high and dry…
28,21 The authentic voice of the libertarian democratic right. You couldn’t make it up.
Every time Mandy starts to speak, the blogosphere can review what he is saying, analyse, find the weakness in his case - and then point and laugh, all before Mandy could sit back down again. The blogosphere can’t be shepherded within the Grid - and has proved to be very largely hostile to the given Labour
LieLine.Plus Brown has given him the shittiest of messages to try to promote. Tony would never have left him this high and dry…
28 We must certainly aim to annihilate Labour at the next election -by which I mean reducing them to 150 or so seats. I don’t think they could recover from that.
And then adopt Sean Gabb’s pamphlet “How to Destroy the Enemy Class” as our manifesto. As Patrick Harper would say “When’s the best time to kick a man? When he’s down.”
FPT “Just six families in England have been helped by the government’s mortgage rescue scheme, a minister has admitted. £200m scheme began at start of 2009.”
Using words that ring out like the ‘its not dead its only sleeping’ Python parrot sketch….
“Ian Austin, the housing minister, promised MPs: “The impact of the scheme is accelerating.””
This would be funny if it was not our money involved…
http://tinyurl.com/nkj97w
26. Jon C.
It only took me a year or so to see the error of my ways! I only ever voted Labour twice - 1997 and then the 1998 London Locals.
Yes, Mandelson is oversold.
Much of his media reputation is due simply to the fact he actually talks to reporters, a bit like Ken Clarke on the other side. The wider public does not seem that enamoured of him.
In my view, he bears large responsibility for losing in 1992, and even Gordon Brown could have won five years later.
And if you accept Oborne’s thesis that fibbing in politics is now commonplace, you might indeed wonder about Mandelson’s Straussian views on the subject.
Mandelson really made his name back in the 1980s, when he started to decontaminate the Labour brand.
However, having realised that the Labour Party should really stop using the red flag, calling each other comrades, and generally behaving like they were longing to introduce the People’s Democratic Republic of Britain wasn’t really a stroke of communications genius.
He is a fish totally out of water in the world of modern communications, where the blogosphere can fisk his lies as he says them.
34. Couldn’t make it up? They sound like Neil “grind the bastards into the dust” Kinnock to me. Do you denounce Kinnock as well or are you two faced Jonathan?
38. You must now pay a forfeit, Sunil.
19 Me too - I was so pleased at the hope and aspirations offered by Tony - never liked Brown but hey what did I know then about what a divisive individual he would become.
On topic:
I think Mandelson is a very smart operator and skilful politician - his interview with the FT over the weekend was masterly in its dishonesty - but he is certainly not invincible, and he is not immune to both tactical and strategic mistakes. In presentational terms, his weakest point is, as Mike says, a certain petulance and arrogance.
Mike is also right to point to the weakness of Brown’s latest relaunch. Whether this is Mandelson’s fault, or simply Brown insisting on being involved, is hard to judge from the outside. I’d guess the latter.
Former Clinton deputy Treasury secretary admits that big spending plus anemic economic growth mean that enormous deficits will make major tax hikes inevitable, probably by next year:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124631646572370703.html
He also suggests a value added tax as high on the list of possible vehicles for new tax increases. I’m not sure how well that sort of tax will play in the aftermath of regressive energy taxation via cap-and-trade, though (not to mention the serial violations of Obama’s pledge to not raise ANY taxes on those making less than $250,000 per year).
In answer to the post of NoOffence Alan at the end of the last thread, the reason the Scottish Tories are not being seen to be doing better in the Scottish polls is that we are still trying to decontaminate the Scottish Tory party image from Brand Thatcher.
Most Scots might be conservative with a tiny “c” but the Scottish people just could not stand Maggie and for 22 years they have been punishing us because of it. The post Falklands 1983 election was the last time we Scots Tories did relatively well and having been decapitated in 1987 we were all but obliterated in 1997.
Ironically the devolution we opposed so strongly (and I was a “No No” man)has been our route back to life.
Remember in 1999 in Holyrood 1 we won 18 seats but they were all top-up regional seats. We started on the long road back to winning ways when we took Ayr at the Holyrood by-election and held it in Holyrood 2.
In 2001 we got a toehold at Westminster with Dumfries and Galloway which we lost on the boundary changes of 2005 which saw 2 sitting MPs oppose one another for the same seat.
At Holyrood 2 in 2003 we caused a minor sensation when in regaining Edinburgh Pentlands, David McLetchie chucked out Ian Gray, then a high-flying Labour minister and now Scottish Labour Holyrood leader. We also snatched back Galloway from the SNP and of course held Ayr. Although we still had 18 seats, importantly 3 of them were FPTP and no matter what anyone says, it is FPTP seats which serious political commentators look at primarily.
Moving on to 2005 we lost the new Dumfries seat to the sitting Labour MP but took the neighbouring and arguably much harder Dumfrieshire seat. We also closed the gap in several other seats we need to recover.
In 2007 we more than doubled our majorities in Pentlands and Ayr and instead of losing the super-marginal Galloway back to the SNP saw a Tory majority of less than 100 multiply to over 3300. the icing on the cake was to take Roxburgh and Berwick from the LibDems and in seats like Eastwood to come back to within a whisker. The current proposed boundaries for 2011 should see us head closer to 10 or more FPTP seats. We lost 1 seat in 2007 but we ended up with 4 FPTP instead of 3.
For a party which was pronounced “dead” in 1997 that is not a bad comeback. No-one expects the Scottish Tory Party to make huge gains at the GE but I have constantly predicted 4-6 gains and even the bookies think those are “do-able”.
Interesting article on sustainibility of improvements in housing market
http://www.bondvigilantes.co.uk/blog/2009/06/30/1246365180000.html
Mandy was always overrated. He was pushing against an open door for ages.
New Labour combined charm with vicious bullying and it worked a treat for ages. However, like most successful people, Mandy has failed to accept that the rules of the game have changed.
There are new voices in the blogsphere, access to information has become easier and the newspaper editors who were once happy to do his bidding are aware that they need to suck up to the next government. On top of all this, he is trying to sell cigarettes to a patient dying of lung cancer.
Waugh reporting Speaker Martin to get peerage
Some news of a surprising betting move in Norwich North.
Ex-ambassador to Uzbebekistan, Craig Murray is standing as an independent. I think he’s got a few foreign policy angles as well as a general turf out the troughers message. We put him in at 100/1, didn’t really think that would interest many people. Instead, we’ve seen a number of bets in the hundreds from several different sources including some decent cash bets in our Norwich shops at our now revised 33/1.
Strange.
2. Actually, I saw an episode of Mythbusters where this myth was busted. You can polish a ….
(and lion works better than ostrich).
SeanT New Labour have been the most nakedly partisan Government this country ha ever had. They set out with a clear mission to stamp out the Conservatives, and the forces of conservatism, forever and they damn near succeeded - to the extent that the Lib Dems were positioning themselves to replace our party.
And now the strategy has failed they are operating a scorched earth policy in the vain hope of destroying anything and everything that could aid an incoming Conservative Government. They are like the evicted tenants who have trashed the flat, stripped the fittings and when they eventually were forced to leave left rotting fish under the floorboards to contaminate the place for years.
I don’t want to be in a party that behaves the same way in return. I just don’t care about them and don’t want to become part of a Governing party obsessed with their opposition as Labour are.
36. I hope you are joking, otherwise you really are casting off you sensible image in favour of the full on swivel eyed loon. I guess the next step you propose will be renaming the state the Democratic Republic of Great Britain and proclaim it for 1000 years.
41 Yeah that remark of Kinnocks was crap and as ultimately self defeating as the Two
RonniesSeans right wing onanism up thread.I agree with the headline. Mandy’s got the most he could have expected - 18 months or so in government through to May 2010.
If he throws a hissy fit and threatens to resign, Brown can reasonably call his bluff. He knows Mandy won’t do it.Mandy has no appreciable supporter base. What he brings is expertise - which was badly needed. The interview with Evan Davis showed this. He was is a very weak position but got a score draw.
Brown will be jiggered if his loyalists see their carreers truelly going down the plughole if it continues to look as though there will be a big Tory victory. This could be Ed Balls, but he can look forward to some fabulous paydays in the private sector after an election defeat. No the man to watch is AJ - for all his protestations
Mandy has a faustian pact with Gordon
FPT “Just six families in England have been helped by the government’s mortgage rescue scheme, a minister has admitted. £200m scheme began at start of 2009.”
Which every knowledgeable blogger said would be the case at the time.
It was a headline stunt, designed to try and appeal to the middle class labour supporting home owners who get nothing while their rented acccom friends get rent paid. A banking solution should have been brought in. At the time the Government owned NR. But they wanted recapitalisation of banks not help for mortgage payers.
The ever present dilemma for new labour. Do you want sound finances or equality for everyone, because you can’t have both.
“Are shares in Mandelson being over-sold?” Mandelsonian deposits are sold globally and heavily. So what’s new? Am I the only pbcom reader tempted to felt-tip in a toothbrush moustache on my screen copy of your unnaturally-dark photo of Mr Grecian 2009?
As California runs out of cash and prepares to start issuing IOU’s to creditors this week, one critical element will be whether state banks will be willing to give cash to the creditors in exchange for the IOU’s:
“With the state poised to issue billions in IOUs in lieu of cash this week, California’s budget crisis could create serious headaches for some private vendors and local governments.
The deciding factor could be California’s banks. If they’re willing to honor the registered warrants, or IOUs, then the problem becomes manageable for the scores of small businesses and local governments that rely on dollars flowing from Sacramento. They’ll be able to cash the IOUs.
But if the banks resist, billions in state payments will be effectively delayed – putting renewed stress on a state and region already suffering from a deep recession.”
http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/1987906.html
If the banks do this, they will essentially be giving interest-free loans to the State of California. They would be exceedingly generous (and possibly foolish) if they choose to do so. We’ll see.
36 - I see the Cameron detox diet has concluded.
OMG YOU’RE INSULTING ROGER’S NEW HERO!!!
[17] what the F*** do you mean “ethnically indigenous”??
Why not step up to the plate Mr. T and say what you really mean!
Perhaps you should order in a couple more ladyboys to wipe your fevered brow (or slake your thirst…)
Meanwhile [31] Taleb is always an interesting person to talk to- and if you want to know more, you could always read
http://cicerossongs.blogspot.com/2005/12/limits-to-knowledge.html
or
http://cicerossongs.blogspot.com/2008/06/taleb-triumphant.html
or
http://cicerossongs.blogspot.com/2008/10/taleb-tries-not-to-say-i-told-you-so.html
SeanT@28: “We don’t have enough money left to defend ourselves. That’s what they have reduced us to.”
This is the line Cameron should use when he follows my advice and pledges to cancel Trident…
I recognise Mandy has consider skill in some areas and has some hold over Brown. However he has a badly flawed personality and because of his Machavillian approach one often cannot be sure of his motives. For example when he indicated there would be be no Spending Review was it a political decision to do so or was it a simple error? I agree with others that Labour has a problem in that the 3 Ministers currently most exposed to the public Brown, Mandy & Balls are major liers who are determined to not admit to the truth about public spending and this will probably back-fire on Labour. While they have so far largely suceeded in keeping Darling reasonably quiet they fortunately have failed to gag The Governor of the B of England, the I for Fiscal studies, the OECD etc. In the final analysis their strategy on not announcing public spending cuts which I am sure Mandy has heavily influenced could very badly back-fire if the markets decide to respond causing a funding crises.
The entire ‘New Labour’ failed experiment has been little more than myth-making exercise for its prominent figures: the ’straight kinda guy’ who went to war on fabricated intelligence; the ‘intellectual colossus’ whose serial ineptitudes have dragged the economy to unparallelled depths. Add to the mix creepy old Mandy oozing his vanities around the TV studios and Campbell’s simple thuggery and there’s not much else to it.
60. Cameron won’t cancel Trident: the most the Tory Party in parliament and the country will accept is a delay.
FPT Floater’s ASDA anecdote — 150 applicants for each shelf-stacking position — shows why the Blairite (and Brownite/Cameronian?) obsession with welfare reform and workfare for “scroungers” is at best untimely.
55. I think Mandelson spends a lot of time ramping up his own share price.
“I was underwhelmed by his appearances yesterday. He couldn’t seem to hack it when interviewers were on the offensive and came over as petulant in the extreme. Am I missing something?”
No and a lot of us have always thought so. His nature is formed by an obsession that afflicts us all but in different ways.. How we cope with it determines us as people. His methods of coping are not very pleasant.
17. 21. 28.
“Two ethnically indigenous criminals out of eight.”
There is only one answer! Expell all deviants from the pure ethnic norm! As an experiment let us commence with the ‘Sean’s. ???
First they came for the Seans. But I was not a Sean…..
65 is that what they call it these days?
Jonathan@34. How dare you talk about democracy, you disgusting creep.
Where’s our f*cking referendum? Eh? The one you promised? Where is it? Where? Where? Where?
Who voted for Gordon Brown? Who? Did Labour MPs vote for him? Eh? Did they? Did anyone? Did they? Did anyone vote for our prime minister to be prime minister? Eh?
At least we have elected ministers… ah, no. Half the f*cking cabinet are in the Lords. Just “appointed”. But then you reformed the lords so… oh no, you didn’t.
Still at least Labour haven’t given us massive electoral fraud, a fascist party in office for the first time, disastrously low turnouts in major elections, a totally devalued parliament, and a repulsive constitutional settlement whereby Labour MPs in Scotland can enforce policies on the English that do not apply to the voters who elect them in Scotland.
Don’t give me your self serving bleats about “democracy” you piece of nightsoil.
The left deserves, no, it NEEDS to die. Once and for all.
67 - Thankfully this site isn’t translated into Polish.
If the Law and Justice Party read the Seans they may have second thoughts about getting involved with such an exptremist grouping.
68 MTF LOL
63 On the subject of Trident, we have already seen the first skirmish between Alex Salmond and David Cameron on renewing the nuclear arsenal.
As a Tory I ahve to say that this could prove to be the “union breaker”. The overwhelming majority of Scots are against both nuclear weapons and nuclear power. If PM Cameron pushes the Scottish Government on renewing Trident then either he will have to rehouse the subs in England or risk the Scots voting for independence to prevent him succeeding. The majority of the Scottish Labour party also oppose nuclear weapons and I am certain many of them would join the SNP before supporting a Cameron led attempt to impose an updated system on the Scots.
Sean’s posts today have convinced me to use all four of my postal votes for Labour at the next election.
69 - Ha Ha.
Always back to the Referendum.
“I can se goats nurse, next to the Lisbon Treaty.
In the nightime”
67.
Whoops, I have forgotten. Sean T has effectively 50 per cent expelled himself already. Is he worried by the possibility of suffering as a bit of colleteral damage when his policy is applied to the ‘most wanted’ ethnic group (Anglo-Saxon) of criminals in Thailand? Is this why he is so concerned that the British Taxpayer should be bankrupted to purchase two multi-billion pound new aircraft carriers to be used as offshore sunbathing and novel-writing platforms for tax exiles?
BBC news and some economics bod was saying that the revision of the GDP figures gives indications that the recovery will be long and slow.
No figures as to how long or how slow.
How far will the UK fall behind the growth rate of our EU partners?
68. Honestly…what a dirty mind
Apologies if already posted but this is really good and says a lot about Balls:-
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3725688/talking-balls.thtml#comments
Labour has plenty of broken manifesto promises for you to laugh at, tim.
73: Labour voters….commiting electoral fraud near you!
78.
SO WHAT ?
73.
“Sean’s posts today…..”
…sound much better re-translated back to the original Bavarian and prefixed by “After we invade Poland…..”
4. Poor maggots!
2.51. Er, polish a what?
78
Guido has something to say about it and a stand up row between two Labour MP’s, No love amongst the Comrades eh!
http://order-order.com/2009/06/30/tempers-flare-in-the-heat/
72. Ultimately, the decision whether or not to renew Trident is one for the UK government not for the Scottish government. However, I agree that Cameron may need to finesse this and move the submarine base if possible from Faslane. If it’s not, then he will have to deal with the issue very sensitively but I can’t see him being willing to give it up.
Another plug for this blogpost about Ed Balls’ lies, bullying behaviour and threats to journalists.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3725688/talking-balls.thtml
Ed Balls trying to bully Fraser Nelson over at Coffee House. Shows how abject this government has become that they’ve taken to ordering censorship of the blogsites.
Talking Balls
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/
(Apols if this has already been posted)
86. Snap!
87 - I don’t think anyone regards Fraser Nelson as a reliable source since his “political vetting of credit cards” story.
78, kudos for Mr. Nelson.
85 Andrew, defence is a UK issue but locating it in Scotland is a Holyrood matter since the SNP has already said it would refuse planning permission. In that it would get the backing of the majority of the Scottish Labour Party, almost all the Scottish LibDems and certainly the Scottish Greens.
69 Give it a rest old girl. I’ve always been in favour of a referendum.
73. Mitchell Stirling
I would not say things like that, even in jest! Mike would have to disclose your IP address to any police investigating a delibrate attempt at voter fraud. Indeed - GCHQ could easily check your details without mike knowing!
65.
Are you Insider trading? Since your outburst, there has been a splat on trading floors worldwide: the bottom has dropped out of ‘Mandelsons’. ‘Mandelsons’ now are sold for 25p and bought for 27p. We take Visas.
I see Excalibur 2.1 with added archive content has been released.
14, 78 - See, that’s why people think Mandelson is a genius. A normal man looks like a giant when he’s standing among a tribe of pygmies.
Mandy also wouldn’t do this: http://twitter.com/edballsmp
lololololol
70 tim, judging by your own bigotted and extremist posts on the previous thread you’re not really in a good position to cast judgement on others, hypocrite.
96 !!!! Clearly a career as a weather presenter awaits…
85, what are the alternate sites? The English Channel is pretty busy, so it’s probably not the best place for a sub base. Wales is certainly out. If you want a sympathetic local population, so are most of the major ports. Belfast is possible, but provocative. A purpose built base, built on a virgin site, might be best, but there’s still the question of where to put it.
96. What a hoon.
91 Easteross - one problem is that the local economy in Helensburgh is highly reliant on HMNB and RNAD Coulport.
How come Labour are not having the by-elections together?
I would assume they would announce both at the same time!
Theoretical question regarding the Scots and independence:
let’s say we had a referendum today and independence was the result. What share of the national debt (we’ll call it one trillion for the sake of this argument) would Scotland take on?
I do wonder, because Scotland doesn’t have many people (5m?) but the costliest institutions and the moronc Chancellors who designed and then failed to reform the regulatory structure are both Scottish.
Would it just be a straight % of population (so 8% or suchlike)?
87. I fear we are in for death by a thousand interviews - an election campaign lasting 10 months with a desperate competition to avoid telling the truth about Parties’ real plans for the cuts to come and to distance themselves from the MP expense scandals. Balls is probably the most awful (he doesn’t realise that speaking faster does not help listeners cope with his slight speech defect) but Teresa May, who was put up against him on the TV this weekend, was equally bad. Let us hope that UKIP and/or the Greens give them both a bloody nose in Norwich next month.
87: ‘Ed Balls trying to bully Fraser Nelson over at Coffee House.’
Ha, ha. So an obscure article about Balls’s dodgy debt stats is now getting massive publicity over the blogsphere simply because Balls threw a tantrum about it. Ed’s made himself look a bit of a silly billy!
91. Can Holyrood refuse planning permission on an MoD site?
The spat with Balls is causing some exitement. They are not all visible, but 80 commments so far. Perhaps they should thank Guido for highlighting it
Does Balls regard the fact that The Spectator leans right as somehow newsworthy in itself?
99. That is a key question of course. I think a new purpose built site would be preferable. Scotland is ideal of course because of the remoteness of its islands but they could build it perhaps on Lindisfarne off the Northumberland coast or maybe in the Scilly Isles.
OT: I know a few posters on here also live in Wanstead, so thought it might be interesting to note that Sky are reporting that Harry Cohen, the MP for Wanstead and Leytonstone is to step down at next election.
No mention as to why. He has large majority so you’d think that is a nice seat for some new labour hopeful free of expenses burden (although his didn’t seem that bad, once he’d explained the caravan-as-first-home shenanighans).
I certainly won’t miss him, but I can’t feel that the replacement will be any more receptive to correspondence.
Lee
Labour seem incapable of getting to grips with the housing crisis in the UK and as a desperate act I shall offer my services.
Quote
The UK will face a second wave of repossessions starting next year which could see up to 120,000 people lose their homes in 2011, a housing charity warned today.
Shelter said a combination of rising unemployment and increases in interest rates would lead to a steep increase in people who were unable to keep up with their mortgage.
Appearing before the Treasury Select Committee, Kay Boycott, director of communications, policy and research at Shelter, said economist Ian Shepherdson had recently forecast that repossessions could rise to between 100,000 and 125,000 a year by 2011.
She said: “Interest rates are currently very low and that can be seen as arrears management in its own right. Interest rates will go back up again.
“Unemployment is rising and what we do know from economic forecasting is that for every 10% of sustained unemployment we get a 30% increase in arrears and repossessions.”
109 I suspect they will build it in Wiltshire.
106 This debate is completely facile. The base is at Faslane and will stay there.
89 tim
Ed Balls clearly regards Fraser Nelson as a very influential journalist.
After all, he not only telephoned him personally, but also phoned Matt d’Ancona four times.
112. I agree it probably will stay at Faslane but it is worth examining the political and legal arguments about an English dominated Tory government building a new nuclear fleet in an overwhelmingly anti-nuclear Scotland.
111
Wiltshire, is I believe, landlocked.
96. What a w*****!!! Apparently he has a first class mind!!
Check out Obama giving the evil eye to right-of-center foreign leaders!
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashoe.htm
Balls story getting a lot of publicity including on Sky News web-site
113 And Martin Bright [ex NewStatesman] said it was what he wrote in the Speccy exercised HMG more than anything he wrote elsewhere…
Hohohohoh
109 Build an onshore set of missile silos in the Falklands. Sorted!
83. Well on TV they euphemistically used the word ‘poop’.
111 can see it now - the subs navigating the Kennet and Avon to the new Devizes Submarine Port & Dockyard
We are a big enough target already with Wilton, Warminster and the Plain, another enemy target will make no difference.
115. “Wiltshire, is I believe, landlocked.” until the first nuclear sub comes in to dock at 30 knots?
122 Any attack would only serve to improve Warminster.
114 Agreed. I really don’t think that Trident will be, or ever has been, a major electoral issue that has swung votes. There are far more important isssues. People in Scotland may detest it, but they are hardly going to change thier vote en masse on the nuclear issue alone.
115. Never heard of global warming?
Marcus Wood: thank you for your moderation.
seanT: ethnically indigenous? Given the numerous different invaders, conquerors and immigrants who’ve landed and bred with the locals in the last 10 millenia, I’ll take it you mean ‘white’. Perhaps Cameron’s Conservatives are not the Right (enough) party for you.
“Over-espresso at Coffee House”
http://johnrentoul.independentminds.livejournal.com/106989.html
“On lying”
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2009/06/on_lying.cfm
122 Either that or stick the sub on the back of a truck. In the climate of cuts, I know this guy with a van who he says will do the trick and he’s very reasonable. You’d think twice about overtaking a nuclear sub on the M4.
115
and I’d recommend Wooton Bassett
17
‘Two ethnically indigenous criminals out of eight.’
Surprised it’s not more after 11 years of immigration/asylum free for all,systematic government policies of undermining anyone in authority,why would they worry as their chances of being caught are minimal,they have the law on their side and if they theoretically could be deported they know the courts won’t enforce it.
re 130
Good Fish Chipsque
129. Put the Trident subs on the Grand Union canal.
128. Rentoul’s strapline says: “He has written a biography of Tony Blair, whom he admired more at the end of his time in office than he did at the beginning.”. So we should be surprised when he gets upset by Labour lie exposure? Is ‘Rentoul’ an amalgamation of ‘rent’ and ‘tool’?
127, 129. Why are odious lefties like you guys still posting on here? F*ck off. Jonathan, tim, Nick Palmer, Roger - enough. F*ck off and come back when you’ve done your penance.
Just go. You are tra1tors. You should go away because we do not want you here.
This is a local blog for local people. British blogs for British commenters.
Go the F away.
128 and I notice that there is no comment option on his post.
He looks like one of the undead in the photo - I think he needs to get out in the sunshine
122
US program for midgetman ICBM on railway wagons - replacing minuteman systems in silos in Idaho (the state with a hole in the middle)
UK Greenham Common cruise missiles deployed on trucks mounted launch systems.
135 LOL
135 - SeanT: that’s enough. Everyone is welcome on pb.com, not least robert at 127 seeing as he is Mike’s son and is in charge of the tech. As far as PB.com goes, that’s about as indigenous as it’s possible to be.
ON TOPIC - No, Mandelson is (if anything) underrated). He is playing for himself, and the challenge is set: the new PM hates him, the next PM will never hire him, and the election should have happened a year ago. Instead, he is the sole reason Labour are still in power, controls two government departments, is Deputy PM in all but name, had a peerage that will last forever, and is actually outperforming a pretty poor Cabinet from the Lords.
Given the hand he was dealt when Blair stepped down, this is about as close to a perfect run as I can imagine. I’m only sorry he’s not also Foreign Sec, so that we could have him facing off against the Ayatollah - no-one does Godless Infidel like the Prince of Darkness.
“Britisch blogs fuer Britisch commenteren.”
Ein Volk….ein Reich…ein Suntan!!!
You guys had better be careful about dismantling your military… By the time the Dems are finished cannibalizing the U.S. defense budget to pay for other programs and plug general budget holes, we’ll have naught but a peashooter and a few rocks with which to come to your assistance should you ever need it again.
Just released two comments on this thread from moderation so add 2
And another thing. Why is the Left getting in a hissy fit about calling politicians liars all of a sudden? I seem to remember the nice, cuddly New Labour Party putting posters up everywhere in 1997 with the banner ‘Same old Tories, same old lies’ to no one from the Left’s apparent disquiet. Utter hypocrisy!
140. Nein, Liebling!
Man sagt: ,,Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Blog!”
neue Arbeitskräfte = wo sind Ihre Papiere
PB.com is second only to ConHome amongst Tory MPs - beating Guido and Dale by a whisker.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/resources/2009/06/conhome-is-the-top-blog-choice-for-tory-mps-and-candidates.html
Bit of a voodoo poll, but it’s the best we have.
122, hmm, there are plenty of closed coal mines round here. Hollow them out a bit more, dig a tunnel out to the open sea, and we’ve got ourselves an underground nuke-proof base, worthy of James Bond.
Cameron doesn’t have a white cat though, and the engineering would be a little costly. A remote island would be a better bet, with short term political impact in Scotland, and a lasting change in the politics of whatever constituency was chosen.
Noticed that as well as Balls saying Cameron is a bully we had Waugh and Brogan bot post on Mr Angry Cameron - now who started the talk this time? Any time Brown is getting regularly biffed we get “Cameron should be careful, his anger/bullying will turn negative for him” - it was probably initiated by Mr McBride last year.
talking of Mr Brogan he has a post pointing out that David Cameron was echoing Pink Flloyd in his “anyone in there? just nod” passage on Monday.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100001553/daves-pink-floyd-moment/
137. Problem with ground or air based detterant is it increases the chances of mistaken attack misfire or the enemy blowing it up. This is why Trident or a sub based detterant is the only viable solution
I will give you a scenerio.
Faulty equipment predicts a massive nuclear attack by Russia on Britain. If the missiles are land based then you only have a short window to launch your counter - attack (3-4 Mins assuming it is from Russian soil)! So you launch the missiles and a minute after they have left the silos you discover it was a cock up………
Alternatively, the enemy plants suitcase nuclear bombs like in the 4th Protocol film near the launch sites and at a time of heightened tensions or actual war the enemy takes out the ground based nuclear weapons pre-emtively!
This is why trident is so good!
If a country attacks us and devestates us i would hope we would launch a counter attack!
143 S&S
If we don’t dismantle our military how can we afford to build the Smokers Shelters outside our freshly refurbished hospitals?
147.
“wo sind Ihre Papiere”
Yo! Chammy my man! You wanna roll-up? Or a comb-over?
150. Ted
“anyone in there? just nod”
102 C the fate of Helensburgh’s economy wouldnt much trouble the SNP. It is a Tory v LibDem battleground and Alex Salmond would consider the Argyll seat a worthwhile loss in the circumstances.
This is funny (I think):
Have a glance at the original German here:
http://www.unilever.de/ourbrands/homecare/sunil.asp
then the automatic English translation on Google:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.unilever.de/ourbrands/homecare/sunil.asp&ei=YB5KSrCYJNmSjAfP-7XgAQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsunil%2Bwaschmittel%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DpBz
Stars and Stripes @143: “…we’ll have naught but a peashooter and a few rocks with which to come to your assistance should you ever need it again.”
That’ll be a top-of-the-range peashooter though, won’t it?
http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending
oh fer f*cks sake, Morus, it was satire. Did you not notice?
“This is a local blog for local people? British blogs for British commenters”???
Humourless twat. Stuff your “political betting” blog with its stupidly bald host and its terminally boring “regulars” right up your alarmingly retentive anus. I’m taking my ball of overstatement and toilet-based metaphor and playing somewhere else.
A bienf*ckingtot, Geeks.
107 Andrew yes which is why if you look none of the new proposed nuclear power stations are in Scotland. Westminster trying to impose its will on Holyrood is just the sort of battle Alex Salmond would salivate at getting.
156 “Sunil has been an epitome of cleanliness and maintenance” - sounds like great husband material to me
I think SeanT should take over from Jeremy Kyle - but after 11pm
PS You’ll find me on Twitter. Where from now on I shall be doing my thing.
Adieu, anoraks.
Why is Scotland so anti-nuclear? It’s not because of Scargalism is it?
Not that it matters. Things are progressing across all corners of England and Wales. We should see construction starting soon. I’m disappointed there seems to be little interest in the ACR-1000 though. I’ve always been a fan of CANDUs and not just because deuterium is such a cool name for an isotope.
I do find it bizarre to find people accuse Cameron of bullying Gordon Brown. It’s all just an unsubtle attempt to bring up Cameron’s public school background. By attacking Cameron for bullying, the PM’s defenders are only undermining their man, by saying that he needs protecting somehow from the big public school bully.
Cameron attacks Brown and his record in parliament and on TV: that is his job as Leader of the Opposition. Brown, on the other hand, bullied Blair out of Downing Street in a 13 year campaign, bullied any potential challengers within the Labour Party, steamrolled TV and radio interviewers for years and had a dreadful reputation as a boss in Whitehall. If anyone is the bully it is the PM. If Labour go hard on this, the Tories should push back hard.
Twitter is text messages for saddos.
152- Well, I suppose smoking is an important national priority…
158.
Don’t worry about Sean T - he’s just suffering a little “Righteous b’llock” Adolf, according to the song, had the same problem.
160. Plato: Um, I am, er, available….Sorry is this being read by everyone?
115 - Richard Nabavi.
I didn’t say Fraser Nelson wasn’t influential I said he wasn’t reliable.
Anyone who can base a piece on immigration, deliberately using statistics that include Cliff Richard as a recent immigrant and Boris Johnson as foreign labour to make their point, cannot be regarded as reliable.
150. Yes Ted - it is so desperately transparent, isn’t it?
159. I would have thought that an MoD base is a different kettle of fish to a new nuclear site and there is already a nuclear base at Faslane. If so, however, it will be interesting to see what the response of a UK government will be.
ID cartds scrapped now on Sky
167
The Albert Hall is always stuffed full of superfluous lefties.
169.
“I didn’t say Fraser Nelson wasn’t influential”
Most of the political commentariat seem perpetually ‘under the influence’. Or have they other excuses for their regular vapid outpourings?
172. Not on their website ticker
RAOTFLMAO, reliability lessons from tim!
172 ID cards scrapped for Air side workers.
172- ReBrandedHorse can die happy now, his life’s work is complete.
175, 177 no longer will be compulsory, you can buy one for £ 30 WTF
162. Is this the part where everyone is supposed to beg him not to go?
164. Sort of on topic, Mandelson goes on the bulling list as well. Didn’t Brown leak the news of Mandelson’s loan–the one that forced him to resign the first time? What exactly was the purpose of that gesture other than to get back at somebody Brown didn’t like? I can’t imagine that it was out of a burning righteousness about the sanctity of the mortgage industry.
Also, why was Brown so angry at Mandelson in the first place?
There’s an very interesting post-mortem of exactly how and why Palin failed so badly in the 2008 campaign - including lots of small details I certainly didn’t know before.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/08/sarah-palin200908?printable=true¤tPage=all
178 Not really. There’s no mention of scrapping the wretched database - that’s the real issue not the cards.
177. Well the last thing they need right now is airport workers on strike. Scrapped altogether would be a welcome change of direction.
63 Scots have a concern about nuclear installations. for a start there have been too many leaks in the area around Dounreay. In any event Scotland will shortly be able to produce all its own electricity using hydro, coal fired and renewable energy sources. The new wind farm just south of Glasgow on Fenwick Moor will be able to power all the homes in the city of Glasgow.
Another one bites the dust,
Harry Cohen, MP who said he was better than Churchill, to quit after expenses row
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6609613.ece
173.
Some Martin Day, Sean’s ‘Prince’ will come!
In the mean time, like Adolf, he devotes much effort to the Braun Eve ‘ho’!
183 - Sounds like Postman Pat has caved into the Unions again, what he does best it seems (well other than stuffing envelopes).
185. Hmmm, next door to my stomping ground of Ilford North.
180 Who knows? A tiff?
“I love you, but I can destroy you,” Mandelson warns Brown.
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2009/06/mandelson-brown-blair-prime
180. Gordon Brown’s team seem to have been involved in Mandelson’s first resignation, although probably Brown himself was not directly involved. Certainly the perception of Brownite involvement, true or otherwise, led to Charlie Whelan’s resignation.
Mike, you’re not missing anything. The emperor is naked.
All Postie has done is caved into the unions over what was suppose to be a trial run and instead says ID card roll-out will come about sooner for us all.
72. Easterross. As I understand it, Plymouth would be only too glad if the decision to relocate the whole of the present nuclear sub fleet to Faslane were reversed. It’s a question of jobs, you see.
The present Government has recently made the decision to run down the Plymouth nuclear sub facility in favour of Faslane. By the time of the GE, that decision may be impossible to reverse.
I can see why people object to anything nuclear in their back yard. So why didn’t Mr Salmond make his objections clear to the Government before this decision was made? (I remarked on this a few days ago.)
It would disappoint me to find that, having secured the jobs for Scotland, Mr Salmond is now just looking for a bone to pick with the Conservatives.
169 - Your own alternative to the statistics that Fraser Nelson uses is nonsense. As I have repeatedly pointed out. You would get more respect if you didn’t just ignore inconvenient points that undermine your pet ideas.
On topic, no, he’s very smart.
See Blue Rog’s post @172 for details.
184 - In any event Scotland will shortly be able to produce all its own electricity using hydro, coal fired and renewable energy sources.
How shortly is shortly?
169 Tim, does Boris Johnston have any English blood? His surname comes from his Scottish granny and he is a mix of Turkish Imperial aristocracy and the illegitimate offspring of a middle-european temptress who had a sprog fathered by the brother of the King of Wurtemburg, which like the Queen and David Cameron makes him a descendant of George II.
185. “better than Churchill, MP to quit… ” Ohhhh YESSS!
185 Guess it was paying back £13 for toiletries that did it
190. Just the mention of all these vile individuals makes me feel ill.
180 diane
“Is this the part where everyone is supposed to beg him not to go?”
No, this is a betting site. We open a spread bet on when Sean returns.
Opening price (minutes from flounce-out): 120-130
“162. Is this the part where everyone is supposed to beg him not to go?”
No, it’s usually the point where people lay odds as to how long it will last.
201/2 - Damn, beaten by a head….
201 - I’m a big seller at 120. I’d reckon that there would be value in selling at 75.
112
Herbert proper Senior
Good post. I am still baffled why the fact that prices of stuff going up is BAD, except for house prices ?????
Rampant house price inflation 2000-2007 has been one of the worst things to happen to this country for decades, and the misery you outline is part of the fallout. Why are the British obessed with high house prices, and think the lifetime of debt slavery that it necessitates, especially for the younger generation is a good thing?
Baffling and sad.
197.
“does Boris Johnston have any English blood?”
Like Mandelson, a sizable slug in his tea every morning?
I thought that Nick Palmer had assured us that ID cards were heading into the long grass:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8127081.stm
Then why do we hear that: “Mr Johnson said the voluntary roll-out of the cards would be speeded up with London residents offered them in 2010″?
189 That sounds like a baddy line from Star Trek
Too bad *I* don’t belong to a union that can force Labour into backing down over ID cards.
204 antifrank
Yes, but remember the risk is asymmetrical. You’d lose a packet if it were as long as a day or two.
193 Anne it has been the settled policy of the SNP for years. I am sure Brown just took the decision to attack the SNP.
As a Tory I ahve no objection to Faslane and hope to see the area represented by a Tory MP again before long.
205. I completely agree. It is the worst economic delusion in this country.
210 a DAY or two?
“Mr Johnson said the voluntary roll-out of the cards would be speeded up with London residents offered them in 2010.”
Do you have a gun to hold to my head, Mr Johnson?
Do you have a scythe to hold to my groin?
No?
No ID card for me then!
208.
“a baddy line from Star Trek”
Sean T will be back as soon as he has something new to rant about or his latest Thai pillow decides she has had enough of him.
213- Self-banishment for a spell seems appropriate after such a shot at Mike’s kid.
210 - As if! I bet he’s reading every word we write.
I’m sure the good citizens of Peckham will be queuing round the block to pay for an ID Card
The bad one certainly won’t.
No day on PB.com is quite complete with a petulant flounce-out, is it?
180/189 - It’s simple. Brown nurtured the grievance that Mandelson stabbed him in the back over the Labour leadership election in 1994. He could never accept that Blair was more popular and well ahead in polling. Mandy was blamed and Brown’s incredible campaign of revenge was born. Brown kept it up from 1994 to Mandy’s miraculous reinstatement last year - when he was brought back to save Brown’s skin.
Blinky Balls says,
Teachers face five-year licensing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8127085.stm
That sounds a lot like more red tape, more bureaucracy, more cost, more non-jobs required to administer the scheme. A perfect New Labour plan, find where there isn’t a problem and propose a non-solution.
If teachers are c##p, the schools should be able to fire them, if they are up to no good, the schools should fire them, if they have committed a crime it will show up on the CRB check if they try and get a new job. Why do they need a licence then?
Today the Nationwide says house prices have risen because there are so few houses for sale. No doubt tomorrow the Halifax will say they are still falling.
What difference does it make wben almost no-one can now get a mortgage.
Anyway I am off to dig my pond and moat since no-one will let me put them on expenses. I find it very theraputic thinking it is Gordon brown’s head every time I plunge my spade into the ground to dig out another turd, sorry turf.
216.
Topical politically-incorrect lyric?:
“Keep On With The Force, Don’t Stop!
Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough!”
221. He wasn’t brought back to save Brown’s skin per se, he was sent back to stop the Labour government imploding, triggering an early election which would have been most inconvenient for Mandelson’s bosses. That happened to involve propping Brown up.
Keep an eye on the Commons after the debate on Ed Balls’ statement - it’s just possible that some MPs will raise points of order regarding the news on ID cards.
Make no mistake about it - this battle between Tory MPs and Speaker Bercow could be very good for Parliament. They will hold him strongly to account for his pledge to see the Commons informed first for all major policy announcements. He will have little choice but to back up his words with actions for fear of what the repercussions could be after the next election.
223.
197 - I’ve no idea.
All I know is that for the purposes of Nelsons article it suited him to claim Boris as foreign labour.
194 - I’m sorry we’ll have to disagree on that.
There are statistics to hand that do not categorise people like Cliff Richard (or Sunil Prassanan) as recent immigrants taking jobs, but as British Citizens taking jobs.
It suited Nelsons purpose to use the former rather than the latter.
218 - I’ve not been here for a SeanT flounce before.
Has he got David Davis tendencies? Portico and all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8126201.stm
Jeez, that is one massive government propaganda piece from the BBC. Not a single comment from an opposition MP, not a single mention to the fact that international independent experts don’t agree that educational standards have risen, not a single mention to why schools are as they put it “hoarding” money.
228 and how’s the article getting on?
I see the smearbot has managed to break out of the continuous IHT loop of this morning, now it is Fraser Nelson smearing time.
Smacks of desperation to me, bit like Blinky Balls and his rant at Nelson this morning. I see the Speccy blog comments have gone mental in support for Nelson, they normally get 10-15 people commenting, up to 135 last time I looked.
228. Prasannan, Tim! It is meaning “the smiling one”
Yes c’mon tim, an article on the Shadow Cabinet shouldn’t be too hard with the Excalibur Draperbase to hand. It must practically write itself…
230 - I’ll write it if asked.
You’re blog is still running with Sunil Prassanan is “not one of ours” can you correct it please.
Sounds like the hot weather is getting to more than just Blinky Balls, from Guido
“A co-conspirator has just spotted John Mann MP, having a stand up row with another unnamed Labour MP, calling him an ‘absolute f***ng disgrace’ in full view of several parties of school kids, Commons tour guides, and police officers. Does anyone know who that other MP might be?”
232 - Sorry.
It takes us brits a while to get used to “recent immigrants” and “foreign labour” like yourself.
231 If ever Balls picked the wrong opponent to tangle with it’s Fraser.
What would have been a backwater story has, through Balls’ dickery made it a blogsplash - just as Fraser pointed out
Poetic justice.
Oracle - I liked the comment
“It is not clear whether the money spent on this increase in resource has been spent as well as possible and we need to look at this in greater depth.”
Remarkable insight there
236 tim, how’s your mate Griffin today?
Labour benches running out of questions again. Shameful when they have more MPs by far.
Has the heat morphed the Smearbot into Nick Griffin?
234 - Mike gave you his email address to send it to.
Tick, tick, tick…
239 - Mythical.
Stick to the films Ed.
238 - That quote just about sums up New Labour during the past 12 years. They should put it on their epitaph.
242 - Did he?
I’ve missed that, could you point me to it?
Sounds to me they have gone crackers! Making them register for liciences etc. Very bad idea!
Labour dont just want a rout but an extermination!
193. Anne - I can see why people object to anything nuclear in their back yard. So why didn’t Mr Salmond make his objections clear to the Government before this decision was made?
Eh? The SNP have been loudly opposed to nuclear weapons since Winnie Ewing was a sperm.
Bercow ticks Balls off for constantly harping on about Tory inheritance tax policy. Good stuff.
246 - I have to say, I have no idea what he is thinking.
As you say the teachers aren’t going to be happy, even more checks and big brother snooping. The schools, why will they be interested in this scheme? Parents, well I would have thought most hope that if a teacher is c##p or has done something wrong, they will get the sack, not lose their licence in a few years time and have to reapply. Finally, government records on getting rid of failing teachers / improving quality of teachers, well according to OFSTED there basically aren’t any c##p teachers.
245, 242, It is mike @ politicalbetting dot com, but without the spaces, obviously.
Any IT jobs on the go? We’ve just been liquidated..
228 - Disagree all you like. When tracking jobs taken by immigrants, it seems entirely reasonable to use a definition based on place of birth, since that person by definition is an immigrant. You suggest using statistics relating to those without British citizenship, which begs the question why citizens who have acquired that status should be excluded. If those born in the UK are underachieving in the employment market for whatever reason, including those who were born outside the UK in the statistics would be pretty useless. What you make of any statistics once produced is, of course, another matter.
I seem to recall that SeanT on one occasion deflounced after 2 minutes. He’s already exceeded my expectations in his self-imposed abstinence. Perhaps he’s using the time to sketch out a particularly gruesome death for his book - I can see him revelling in an exsanguination.
252 - seatT is “tweeting the Fleet” (again, having been obliterated by a rain storm last time). As of a few moments ago he was ignoring some schoolgirls
Looks like even Labour have come to the conclussion the UnBritish ID Cards scheme is dead in the water!
253 Maybe he’s not feeling well…..
246. what was the point of the GTC, a body which forces teachers to pay to teach (shades of have to pay t’mill owner to come to work in t’mill)?
Why is New Jersey the model? Are standards higher in Germany by any chance?
241 ‘Has the heat morphed the Smearbot into Nick Griffin?’
No. He’s always been a bigot.
Day in, day out, it’s ‘let’s make fun of those silly men, with the different sounding voices who went to the funny school. Oh, and their faces look different to me - that’s the perfect opportunity to suggest that they’re inbred mongrels descended from dogs and horses’.
That sounds just like the vile BNP. The only difference is that the objects of tim’s persistent ridicule aren’t displaced and deserving refugees, or other immigrants, but invariably white Conservative MPs, which in his eyes is perfectly acceptable bigotry.
What a hypocrite.
245 tim - since you have been asked repeatedly for it, I’m surprised that you claim to be in the dark.
However, as a public service, here it is:
“If Tim wants to submit a piece I’ll be happy to consider it. Email me at mike@politicalbetting.com by Mike Smithson June 29th, 2009 at 9:35 am”
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/06/29/could-pm-johnson-deny-dave-his-majority/ POST 131
255 - So far this tweeting the fleet business appears to consist mostly of thinly disguised v*yeurism.. latest tweet “couple practically sh*gging in grass”. I think it’s safe to say he’s firing on all cylinders.
252. The alternative nationality-based data anyway show a pretty similar picture.
What you actually want is a blend of the two definitions, which winkles out the oddities (UK citizens born in Germany etc. to armed forces parents, very long-term immigrants).
But even if you had this it wouldn’t change much - the facts are clear, that a very large share of new jobs created over the last decade or so have been taken by people who can rightly be referred to as ‘immigrants’.
249. It is almost like a Comedy watching Brown and Balls make the wrong choices!
I still cannot for the life in me understand why Ed Balls wanted to do Education. He reminds me of a cross between Ian Brady (Moors Murderer) and a Nazi!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lYENdXKR_LA/SN6VDtKy3ZI/AAAAAAAAC7c/CbttgDtgoag/s400/ed+balls+in+nazi+uniform+looking+at+his+mates+false+arse.jpg
261 Martin - don’t forget that Balls didn’t want to dress as a Nazi - it was the big boy who made him do it and then he ran away.
261: ‘He reminds me of a cross between Ian Brady (Moors Murderer) and a Nazi!’
Popular with you then!
Damian Green raises the point of order regarding the Home Secretary and his briefing of his written statement two hours before it was placed in the Commons library at 3:45pm.
Bercow responds saying he will investigate after clarifying that the Commons library did not leak the material. Could Alan Johnson be in line for a smackdown?
260 And here is the graph that demonstrates your point.
These are ONS figures.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article_images/articledir_7445/3722968/2_thumbnail.jpg
264, poor fellow, he was only doing what the Fuhrer and Goebbels have been doing.
Another climbdown as we approach the election from this F4cking Useless Scum of the earth government !
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Compulsory-ID-Cards-For-Airside-Workers-Are-Scrapped-By-The-Government/Article/200906415325284?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15325284_Compulsory_ID_Cards_For_Airside_Workers_Are_Scrapped_By_The_Government
262. No doubt he made him stare at his crotch as well!
No Mike you’re not missing anything and have Mandelson spot on - all bully boy spin and no substance.
A doctor writes:
Early detection of pbitis is absolutely vital. It tends to start with unwarranted familiarity - “Make sure you have a good rest, Mike, thank Robert for me”. If this symptom is not treated immediately, it leads feelings of self importance - “I’m off to my cottage in Scotland so you will have to make do without me”. The tertiary stage is the full blown flounce. Finally, and terminally come the feeble attempts at humour and satire. May God have mercy on us all.
SeanT… oooo, get her.
Quick Poll: was SeanT today:
a) fictitious
b) pie-eyed on skunk
c) pi**ed as a newt
d) pie-eyed on ladyboys
e) unbelievably stone cold sober- and hating it.
Answers on a postcard please to:
SeanT Compo,
c/o “A little bit extra”
Third shack along, then turn left at the Mama-San,
Bang-kok (oo-err Mrs)
270.
:)
Where’s eyebrows gone ????
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/wheres_alistair_darling%3F.html
270 Post of the day
According to the BBC, the Home Office’s stated purpose for ID cards is “for youngsters to prove their age when going in to pubs”. Seems a bit pricey at £6 billion. I used to know someone at school who could furnish you with such a card for a tenner.
271.
“SeanT Compo”
More Hettie Wainwright, surely?
275, I thought they would save us all from death by terrorism/benefit cheats/illegal immigrants/having the wind blow one’s hair out of place/flatulence?
The Times Hattie Garlick adds to the Balls plot
http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/06/a-manifesto-for-blogging.html
tim and others - can all guest articles please be copied into me on morus1516 [AT] hotmail [DOT] com as Mike will be away over the course of the summer.
Thanks
275 - And given that the Portman Group run precisely that scheme already.
278, nice article but the Nightjack comment is very valid.
275. Good grief how banal
Re the earlier comments about Mandelson being overhyped, I strongly disagree on that.
Mandelson is the most politically gifted member of either house and has some way to go yet (either as temporary PM or as leader of Labour in opposition or if there is a hung parliament he would, no doubt, become defacto PM - some would argue he is already).
My opinion of him personally has softened considerably over the years and am starting to get quite angry when he is referred to as ‘Mandy’ on forums - he has plenty of surface area to attack - there is no need for the dog whistle on his sexuality.
260 - most ’migrant’ workers are not recent arrivals – no more than half of those born abroad, and in UK employment in 2007, had arrived in the UK in the past 10 years.
http://www.statscom.org.uk/C_1237.aspx
Sunil and Cliff Richard can be included as immigrants if you like.
But Nelsons attempts to claim that recent immigrants have take the majority of the jobs are bogus.
More likely to be children who moved to this country in the 70’s eighties and 90’s entering the Labour Market.
275 & 277 - There are nearly as many new reasons for ID cards, as Browns had relaunches. Hasn’t anyone figured out what they’re for yet (other than keeping an ever watchful and malevolent eye on a potentially dissident public)?
The shambolic ID cards half U-turn is a freebie for Cameron at PMQs.
It seems to be a fairly basic media management error by Johnson to me.
Bad news should always be announced on Thursdays (or even better, Fridays) unless an external event makes it a good day to bury bad news.
279 - I’ll send something after the second jobs info comes out tomorrow.
231.
“Speccy blog comments have gone mental….”
That mag has a history of bonkers ‘bonk’ers, does it not?
286, it’s almost as if he isn’t up to the job
284 Hope you noticed Morus’ post at 279 about his guest article email details.
Wouldn’t want you to send to Mike by accident whilst he’s on holiday.
Looking forward to your cogent analysis.
Just a comment to wish Mike and family a well deserved holiday from tomorrow.
277. Nah. Blunkett first proposed the idea right after 9/11, which may have misled you, but he was admirably able to rise above all the hysteria about “terrorists” and “death” to consider the plight of kids who want to get pissed.
292, it’s a shame we don’t have passports or student union cards or driving licences to identify young adults with. Oh well.
What are Labour up to today?
Johnson’s U turn on ID cards and Balls new regulations on teachers??
The first looks weak, the second looks like insane union prodding
283.
No there is no need to attack his sexuality.
However he is not “politically gifted” he is a conniving git who has been sacked twice, he is not elected and shouldn’t be in the cabinet making decisions !! being called “Mandy” is lame there are many other names I and many others would call him the first one I can think of Starts with a “C” and ends with a “t” , get my drift ?
294.
Labour Labour Labour Out Out Out
293.
Don’t give em idea’s…… you never know what they might dream up next !
OT Jacko shock - he is not their dad - and neither is their mother??
No wonder they don’t look like either of them
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196332/Michael-Jackson-Debbie-Rowe-biological-parents-of-children.html?ITO=1490
292.
“Blunkett … was admirably able to rise above all the hysteria…”
…and spawn a little Quinn, coming over all right wing? Always willing to give the staff a ‘leftie’ hand at the Speccie
re 283. MK If Mandy is so good how come Labour had only single digit deficits when he arrived compared with the massive margins of today.
His period has been one of almost total disaster for his party and his presence just makes the media more agressive.
295. do you not think the fact he’s been sacked twice and is not pulling strings from a life peerage is indicative of his political talent?
The more I think about what I typed earlier - the more I think Mandelson may be making a big play for a hung parliament - it would give him power and it is probably just about achievable - he could become PM of a hung parliament without ever being elected by the public or the party.
287.
I’m sure you have plenty of old crap in your bedsit to send as usual you little Labour Troll
300 Coincidence. I doubt Mandy caused the recession, which is the underlying weakness in Labour’s poll rating.
But 10/10 for mischief making.
283.
“(Mandy)… has plenty of surface area to attack”
Oh get you!!! He’ll not thank you for that allusion to his problems squeezing into tight trews!
300 Mike, you have to counter that with the fact we’re in a massive recession and the current PM is an unimaginably poor leader (by UK or US standards)
In the pool of mediocrity that is the current Parliament Mandelson stands head and shoulders above all (he would have been a minnow in the 80s - which says a lot about where we are today politically)
293. What about young-looking people who don’t have a passport, aren’t students, and don’t drive? Did you ever stop to consider how they’re supposed to get served in bars? The ID card scheme can only further enhance Labour’s reputation as the champion of the voiceless.
300.
“..how come Labour had only single digit deficits…”
Because they just wouldn’t get their finger out?
300 - That’s like criticising a concert violinist because his performance was ruined by idiots playing penny whistles in different keys at the same time.
You can’t make bricks without straw.
re Mandy and his “hold”
google “cryptome mi6 meacher”
301.
Go and have a lie down and stop taking those tablets.
Burning Questions of Our Age
Q: Is Mandy overhyped?
A: Surely that’s rhetorical.
Q: Is Mandy past his sell-by-date?
A: Too early to tell. But keep in mind that his job is to make the best of a very bad situation. Eventual soft landing (Tory minority or slight majority after next GE) would be victory for Mandy & Co.
Q: Wither the Other vote?
A: This vote has four components:
1. Core supporters of each party.
2. Partial supporters who are likely NOT to vote, but if they do will vote for a minor party or spoil their ballot paper.
3. Voters who believe in different tools for different jobs. For example, people who vote Conservative for Westminster, UKIP for Strasbourg; this particular group is large, there are other permutations of which those involiving Liberal Democrats, SNP and local independents are also electorally significant.
I hope you lot are all looking forward to the start of the 3rd quarter!
The most important news story of the year so far, and it seems to have gone scandalously unreported by the British press!
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINTRE55R0HL20090628?sp=true
Mandelson = politician = evil nasty little person.
Thank God that there are a few MPs who are not politicians by nature; of course they usually remain on the back benches and do good works for their electorate. Even some of them took to the trough. Shame that.
Politicians are not heroes; just grubby little power-brokers, and their party allegiance matters not one jot.
300: ‘…his presence just makes the media more agressive.’
Absolutely Mike! There was that incident during the failed coup when Mandelson gate crashed Nick Robinson’s live talking-head analysis on the News to do his ‘Prime Minister at the very top of his game’ nonsense. It was embarrassing, ignorant and clunking in equal measures, and if I’d have been Robbo I’d have told the nincompoop to buzz off and next time arrange an interview in the proper way. I can’t see how that smart-arsed behaviour helped with the Labour ‘message’ in any way.
306, simple, all we need to do is brand their birth date into their foreheads. This will be far more cost-effective than the ID card scheme and it’ll never require renewal.
313. Peter Viggers, eat your heart out.
298. I don’t think they look like Jacko either!
316. Too open to fraud. They could get a skin graft.
http://tinyurl.com/ckmmel
The answer to the Mandelson question is ‘yes’. He’s not only running rings round his Conservative opponents he’s humiliating them. I know this repetition of ‘Tax cuts for the rich versus public service cuts’ sounds trite repetitive and insulting to our intelligence but it’s working.
Whatever the newspaper headlines might say the underlying message is getting through. It’s the Goebbels method.
So a toast to Mandy. Bottoms up!
319, simple. As a redundancy measure we could nail a little iron plaque bearing their birth date into their spine. Bar owners would be required to purchase handheld x-ray scanning devices to double-check.
re 321. So why is Labour not doing well in the polls Roger? Why did Mandy allow Gord to announce his half-baked series of platitudes yesterday?
You are clutching at straws I fear.
306 ‘Did you ever stop to consider how they’re supposed to get served in bars? ‘
Is that really a good reason for imposing ID cards on all of us? Strewth.
‘The ID card scheme can only further enhance Labour’s reputation as the champion of the voiceless.’
More like a reputation of repression, and control.
—–Breaking News.—–
Big move in the FTSE/Numpty league — Marquee Mark up to Second.
The league now stands
1.Madasafish
2.Marquee Mark
3.Cookie.
4.Weathercock.
Too much ground for Marquee Mark to make up on prediction king
Madasa “Michael” Fish (FTSE 3000) but Mark’s tenacity has paid off.
Rather than going for broke with a totally Mad prediction, Mark has been coming back to the well on a monthly basis forecasting the FTSE would go below 4000 at the end of each and EVERY month.
Bravely issuing the challenge in June “If the FTSE is not below 4000 by the end of the month then you can beat me black and blue”
Sorry mark, for novelties sake its going to be Claret and Blue for this European place.
Congratulations.
Following House Price moves, Ken seems to have the insults/poor forecasting Kendex wrapped up.
Further updates later.
321 “It’s the Goebbels method.
So a toast to Mandy. Bottoms up!”
You seem extremely proud of something that would be repulsive to most voters.
You have to read this
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3727551/the-schools-secretary-forgets-where-he-is.thtml
Absolutley unbelievable…
The BBC News website gives the date of the Norwich North By-Election as 23rd July 2009. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8125531.stm
This confirms strong local rumours.
Interestingly enough, the DCLG have just announced ground rules by which they will decide on local government reorganisation in Norfolk (and Suffolk and Devon). The original Norwich unitary bid on its existing boundaries with the rest of Norfolk as a residuary two-tier seems back on the Agenda. I wonder if the two events are related?
321: ‘He’s not only running rings round his Conservative opponents he’s humiliating them.’
As far as I can see the only ones being humiliated are lumbering old Gordon with his sub-Footite election results and the increasingly ridiculous Mandelson - forever flapping around and irritating us with his tired New Labour conjuring tricks. It’s a desperate spectacle.
306 Then they can get a Proof of Age card.
http://www.citizencard.com/
321.
“He’s not only running rings round his Conservative opponents he’s humiliating them.”
Go on, tell us, what did you have to descend to to get that ticket for this year’s Deripaska boat-trip?
Extract from a good article on bloomberg.com which confirms “major tax hikes and cuts in public spending” at evens.
June 30 (Bloomberg) — The state of the U.K. economy fills British financial historian Niall Ferguson with foreboding.
“The probability of a real sterling crisis is around one in three, and the probability of major tax hikes and cuts in public spending is roughly one in one,” the Harvard University professor says.
Ferguson’s concern stems from the deterioration in the U.K.’s public finances, which prompted Standard & Poor’s to warn on May 21 that the country could lose its AAA debt rating. The firm estimated the cost of propping up Britain’s banks at 100 billion pounds ($166 billion) to 145 billion pounds and said government debts could double to almost 100 percent of gross domestic product by 2013.
This is my favourite comment from the Balls spat on Coffehouse
J R Hartley
June 30th, 2009 1:19pm
So weak!!
He appears to have the same grasp of the web and blogging as the IN Berkley-educated Derek Draper.
Your pants are on fire Edward.
Oh Mandy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSDlhDp6uWw
326 ‘Tis my curse to be ahead of the times…
I still picked the top of the market though in early May though. FTSE down another 4% in June. So who is the bigger Numpty: me - or anyone who didn’t follow my advice?
I’m guessing you didn’t liquidate your portfolio at the top, Tim?
327.
“Absolutley unbelievable…”
Melanie Phillips in the Mail? Unbelievable? Wow, you do surprise! No doubt she’d do a far better job than that Ms Izzet.
300. Because it takes time for the message to get through. for an advertiser to get somewhere near 70% of their target market requires buying a huge number of spots. Same with a political message.
I don’t say labour wont do something to screw up but these last few days has been the most concerted I’ve seen them since Brown assumed the leadership.
321 Pity that the voters haven’t noticed.
321 One post too far, I think Roger.
Admit it - you’re just playing it for laughs now!
283- “Mandy” is a shot at his homosexuality? I think you’re being a bit overdramatic… it serves as a handy nickname.
338, I think you’ll find that if you discount 50% of Tory voters and increase the Labour vote by a fifth that Labour are behind by merely a dozen points or so. Given postal voting, easily enough to ascertain supreme victory.
This is good politics by Osborne
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8127322.stm
340, oh. I feel silly for referring to him as Bendy McGaylord now
Surely he should be called a gaylord? Derogatory yet 100% accurate.
337. You mean “10% cuts” will be peaking just “Gordo is a liar” is getting serious mainstream traction? Cool !
320 Mandy and “Gottler”….
340 - No, it is a clear jab at his homosexuality. Those on the left aren’t guiltless either - references to Mrs Dale’s Diary fall into the same category.
OT St Cliff has a naughty conservatory http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196579/.html?ITO=1490
321- I don’t know if Goebbels is the best analogy. Perhaps Ernst Roehm works better.
“Teachers face five-year licensing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8127085.stm
That sounds a lot like more red tape, more bureaucracy, more cost, more non-jobs required to administer the scheme. A perfect New Labour plan, find where there isn’t a problem and propose a non-solution. ”
The idea is fine by me but the it just appears to add paperwork for no appreciable effect.
More impractical bureaucracy - so no change there then.
342: ‘This is good politics by Osborne’
Indeed. The Government has given up on having an economic policy and the Chancellor is locked away in a broom cupboard somewhere. Clever for Ozzy to take responsibility.
346. No it isn’t…
Is Alex Ferguson (Fergie) gay?
Mandy is just convenient shorthand.
Lord Mandelson of Fop is a comment on his homosexuality.
346 - I dislike Mrs Dale references as it’s not even shorthand or funny.
346 I’ve always assumed it’s based on Mrs. Wilson’s Diary.
346 antifrank
Complete news to me. ‘Mandy’ is no different in my mind to other semi-affectionate nicknames such as ‘Hattie’. It is simply an abbreviation of a rather long name.
Perhaps I lead an over-sheltered life.
I’ll grant you ‘Mrs Dale’, however.
352 But the name of Dale’s website is a clear reference to the old radio programme, Mrs Dale’s Diary.
In 1966, England won the World Cup . . . and Harold Wilson won the general election.
In 2010, Mandy will win the Eurovision Song Contest . . . and the rest as they say will be history . . .
253 - It’s based on the radio serial Mrs Dales Diary…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Dale’s_Diary
So hardly fair to pull people up for making the comparison.
342 Wouldn’t a leak a la MPs expenses be just perfect
Toenails blog seems to be even more partisan than usual or am I being oversensitive?
Ed Balls is such an idiot. The number of comments on the Spectator Coffeehouse front page today runs as follows:
Comedy Central
Comments (9)
Talking Balls
Comments (173)
A shadow Cabinet member needs to call Brown on his lies
Comments (16)
Balls lies
Comments (42)
Monday, 29th June 2009
Damning with faint praise
Comments (13)
Writ for Norwich North by-election to be moved tomorrow
Comments (9)
The great grammar school debate
Comments (17)
By phoning up and haranguing Fraser Nelson, he’s turned a small internet story into a much much bigger story. He’ll be lucky now if this doesn’t go mainstream.
353: ‘I’ve always assumed it’s based on Mrs. Wilson’s Diary.’
Mrs Dale’s Diary surely:
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/radio/mrsdalesdiary.htm
I love the licensed teacher balls up. I retired in December but this brings back the scenes in staffrooms up and down the land as my ex-colleagues digest this luvly nugget uf nu-Lab nonsense!
359. Look underneith the headline.
I dont think it is as it looks from the first paragraph or so. Compared to further into the blog post.
359, ah, Toenails: “a young and privileged man” (Osborne) I wonder if Damian or Ed gave him that line.
Labour are diching policies faster than the Road Runner.. Early election anyone?
347 - That immigrant Cliff Richard, is referred to as “Bachelor Boy” by a Tory councillor, who tried to get ten song titles into a planning discussion.
Its a shame Cliff never recorded a song with erectio# in the title.
346.
“it is a clear jab at his homosexuality”
So ‘Gordo’ alludes to his divinity?
Calling his supporters ‘Brownies’ implies that they run around with little girls?
The derivation of both “Mandy” and “Mrs Dale’s Diary” can be attributed to innocent reasons. But it is curious, is it not, that two of the most prominent gay men in British politics have such feminine epithets?
348. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels (1942)
(Obviously the same applies to the truth!)
368 The problem (from the government’s point of view) is that almost everyone sees through the lie.
365 Say what you like about him, he certainly puts bums on seats.
176 - yes, a tad ironic I thought too
364. Maggie Thatcher Fan
Funny you should say that but i think the Glasgow by-election not having the writ tabled today is an indication of just that! Or at least leaving the option for an autumn election.
Labour know they will lose Norwich North anyway IMO. So they will write it off as expenses etc. If the result does not give Labour a hammering they will attempt to say it is some kind of sign of a resurgence! If Glasgow was lost and there must be a good chance the seat is as poorly canvassed/leafleted as last years by-election then that would be fatal to Labour IMO.
Norwich North would not induce Labour panic like in Glasgow so i should imagine they will leave it until after the conference. If Labour are still in wipe out zone who is going to forgo 6 months of pay just to get rid of Brown?
363 - Is Osborne privileged?
I thought his friends laughed at him for lacking class last summer and called him oik all his life.
Wealthy perhaps, but is it priveliged to be born into the class just beneath those you aspire to be respected by?
sorry if already posted but hilarious
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/06/how-not-to-be-prime-ministerial-on-a-pm-visit.html
Brown made a number of faux pas. His worst was to meet the same Italian teacher twice in 15 minutes and attempt to have the same conversation with her, forgetting he had already met her
365.
“That immigrant Cliff Richard, is referred to as “Bachelor Boy” by a Tory councillor, who tried to get ten song titles into a planning discussion”
I was at a meeting on Cadbury’s for Leo Burnett and they played that game. The production company and creatives were each given 3 words to say at the meeting. One of mine was ‘Seamen’ which was extremely difficult in a meeting about chocolate.
374 - It’s a fun game. A client once challenged me to get ten song titles chosen by him into a (lengthy) letter of advice in a naturalistic manner. “I heard it through the grapevine” was not too problematic but “If you tolerate this your children will be next” took more ingenuity. The letter later formed part of instructions to leading counsel, who made no comment.
373 - It really is a comedy show, what utter utter morons they are! Gordon is a genius myth is more and more debunked every week! I bet old Gordo also asked them what they wanted to be when they grow up as well.
377 (cont) Anybody find it weird that it seems like the only visit Gordo does these days is to schools to be photographed around little kids.
On another note, Michael Jackson…..
374 - Thats why SeanT has gone away.
Rather than talking about “how to spot a Jew” at his daughters birthday party, he tried to get ten Dead Kennedy’s song titles into the invites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dead_Kennedys_songs
and has been hauled off by the authorities.
“Shadow Chancellor George Osborne says ministers have denied him access to information he needs in order to decide how to reduce public spending.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8127322.stm
Oops.
Standards bill not compatible with human rights law – report
Controversial legislation hits another hurdle
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/30/parliamentary-standards-bill-human-rights
364
That is a disgraceful comment for Robinson to make, It hardly adds to the BBC argument that it is unbiased. I just rang the BBC to complain about it. CCCHQ will no doubt be aware too.
380 - Methinks thats a Civil Service decision and Osborne is, err, confused.
380 - I notice in that report, the BBC are still trying to spread the government lies,
“real spending can increase after 2011 if tough decisions are taken on tax and ‘efficiencies’”
As stands, there is no basis for the government real term spending increase claim, their own figures can’t back it up, and should be reported as such. The BBC take is somehow the government are going to magic the money.
383 So tim will you be submitting an article to Mike/Morus tomorrow?
382 - Its not fair to call a man called oik by his friends “privileged”.
Particularly a man so clearly insecure that he uses his children in an discussion about schools funding.
I’ve got young children, many people watching this programme have got young children
When he took his child out of one of the best state primaries in London and put them into a school with straw hats.
Best Daily Mail headline of the week so far [I know it's Tuesday]
Police warn of fake Valium pills which ‘make you undress and turn your skin blue’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196481/Police-warn-fake-Valium-pills-make-undress-turn-skin-blue.html?ITO=1490
I’m lost in moderation
385 - yes.
will you correct your blog so that people like Sunil are not categorised as “not one of ours” when it comes to getting a job.
It smacks of nastiness.
360. The Ball’s lying & threats against Fraser Nelson already picked up by the Inde, Economist, Sky and by a few of the right leaning blogs.
388 tim, please sort out your own home grown bigotry before criticising others.
388. Plato thinks I’m good husband material! (see post 160)
On the flip side, every second post by Tim seems to be about me!
Could somebody explain why the SmearBot has been given a guest slot? What has he done to deserve such an honour? It isn’t long since he had to be put on the naughty step for his behaviour. What would Super Nanny make of rewarding him in such a way?
391 It looks as if you’re in with Plato! Alarmingly you could be in with tim as well…
391 - Plato just wants to include you on a “new immigrants take our women” graph, don’t be lead.
O/T when was the last time all four Top 4 Ladies seeds all reached the Wimbledon semifinals?
392
Tim has not been given a slot, Mike said he could submit a thread if he wanted to and it would be considered.
Given the bile Tim writes, I doubt it would get past first base. Even handed and Tim are a contradiction in terms.
393. Well the good news for Plato is that I’m on the market(!), but as for tim - “Nicht, nicht!”, as Bruno might say
245 - tim, you were told that several times yesterday, you were here posting loads and this morning and again and again you were reminded of what yuo had offered to do and Mike confirming he would run it.
Stop the games, get on with it or eat your words
To use an argument you utilised earlier. Because of the non appearance of this article must we assume all your other comments are worthless?
396- I may be wrong, but I suspect that tim has it in him to write an interesting article for PB. I would love to see it, anyway.
368 “But it is curious, is it not, that two of the most prominent gay men in British politics have such feminine epithets?”
You do have a point. BUT it’s also true that Brit politico nickmames (most especially from the Tory side of the field) often have that ring to them, for example: Pam, Dizzy, Winny.
Perhaps this is a public school fashion? Until Mandy, Labour nicknames definitely tended to be what you’d call a real working bloke, as in the otherwise extremely dissimilar Ernie Bevin and Nye Bevan.
388 Since when were you appointed Blog Tsar? The only nastiness is in your interpretation.
Either one is a UK born national or one is not - it has nothing to do with race, however this is the inference that you wish to make - that is your mind-set not mine.
Look forward to reading your article
396 - Ha Ha.
Careful you don’t get moderated bandwidth boy.
I bet the BBC have got an employee on duty just to deal with your phone calls.
Do they know you by name yet?
It is Mike site he can do what he likes (obviously),
However, I reckon before any article should be considered by Mike, we should put the SmearBot of a star chart ala Super Nanny. A gold star if he manages a whole day without a smear, a silver if he manages less than 5 smears in a day. 2 Silver’s are equal to a gold. Only when he gets more than x gold stars can he be considered.
392 Oracle - We’ll be in to the July silly season, so perhaps Mike thought a game of Tim Bingo! would be quite fun.
I’m looking forward to seeing how he works the MMR vaccine, Nadine, the Rees Moggs, the Bullingdon Club, IHT, Bill Wiggins’ alma mater, the South Downs National Park, Latvians, and Clause 28, all into an article on front-bench expenses. But I have every faith in tim, so I’m sure he’ll manage.
Sunil - if only I was fought over with such vigour!
Have you ever visited the stations on the Southern rail network
402
Bandwith boy .. Tim the amount of bandwith you take up with your smears is huge by comparison to anything that I write.
404 - Don’t forget the Hurd boys.
406 and with two young children to be a role model for as well - tsk, quality time must be tough with all that research to do as well…
Harry Cohen announces he will not seek reelection making that 61 Labour MPs going….
John Austin, John Battle, Colin Burgon, Richard Caborn,
Colin Challen, Ben Chapman, David Chaytor, Michael Clapham,
Frank Cook, Jim Cousins, Anne Cryer, John Cummings,
Quentin Davies, Janet Dean, Bill Etherington, Neil Gerrard,
John Grogan, Patricia Hewitt, Keith Hill, Beverley Hughes,
John Hutton, Brian Iddon, Adam Ingram, Lynne Jones, Martyn Jones, Ruth Kelly, Fraser Kemp, David Lepper, Chris McCafferty,
Ian McCartney, Rosemary McKenna, Bob Marshall-Andrews,
Eric Martlew, Alan Milburn, Margaret Moran, Elliot Morley,
Kali Mountford, Chris Mullin, Doug Naysmith, Bill Olner,
Greg Pope, Bridget Prentice, John Prescott, Ken Purchase,
John Reid, Martin Salter, Mohammad Sarwar, Alan Simpson,
John Smith, Helen Southworth, Ian Stewart, Gavin Strang,
David Taylor, Mark Todd, Des Turner, Kitty Ussher, Rudi Vis,
Alan Williams, Betty Williams, Tony Wright
404 Don’t forget ‘Agricultural subsidies for farming’. Which reminds me, shouldn’t you be checking to see if the combine harvester on Fantasy Farm is ready for some arable action tim? It’s that time of the year again, and it would be a great shame if mice had eaten the wiring. You wouldn’t want to have a fire destroying your crop. Or do you just send your forelock tugging minions out with scythes?
300 - wasn’t the onset of recession the thing that saved Brown last year?
“no time for a novice” and all that
407 and what is a Hurd boy? I must have missed the definition.
405. Well I have to turn tim down, unfortunately!
As for Southern (and I guess you mean the modern company), I’ve been to all stations within the M25. And the same applies to the rest of the old SR network (ie. South West Trains and Southeastern, with a bit of First Capital Connect).
410 - The two groups of people who are not to “share the pain” under Camerons tax and benefit plans are Married Millionaires, and Married Millionaire Farmers.
Me and Dave.
No pain for us.
327 - trouble is its all too believable.
Oh the big housing plan U-turn, local houses for local jobs is complete, no new laws,
It says it does not want to change the law, merely give councils “more freedom” to interpret existing rules.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8127405.stm
So in other words, they aren’t going to do anything, because they know they can’t as the lawyer have been on the phone to Gordo and told him it will end up in court! Only took 24hrs for this one to fall apart.
The Coffee House ‘Talking Balls’ blog now has almost 200 comments, which must be a record for them. Ed Balls is not only a bully and a liar, he’s also stupid.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3725688/talking-balls.thtml
409.Jim Devine also barred from standing….Ian Gibson, Michael Martin already gone
416 (correct) local houses for local people
414 How do you arrive at this conclusion?
and of what relevance is someone’s occupation?
Personally I think an article submitted by Tim and approved by Mike could be very interesting and look forward to reading it in such an event.
Of course, having been approved and posted, there is the question of defamatory remarks and libel to consider. It could be a very short article indeed as Tim gets to grips with non-litigious and intelligent argument. We shall see if it materialises.
That reminds me, are we ever getting the edit feature back?
tim certainly has the talent to write a good PB article, the only question is if he has the temperament. I would humbly suggest to him to write something about the Labour Party rather than the Tories in order to increase the likelihood of his oeuvre being thread-worthy.
Maybe the Smearbot article will have to be published in redacted form, we know his hero is a big fan of “Redaction Action”
Entertaining to see people who spend half their time trying to silence tim spending the other half trying to get him to write an article.
207 - antifrank, no I just gave my personal opinion that it’d be reasonable if we’re looking for savings to kick it into the long grass: I wasn’t making a government announcement here! (Mr Bercow wouldn’t like it if I did.)
423 - Small problem with that idea, his SmearBot Database only includes Tories and a handful of Lib Dem’s. He doesn’t seem to have any info provided to him on Labour MP’s past and present!
425 - And what would you know about looking for savings?
421
Like Mike did to me yesterday and apologies for the repetition
I think this is the likely extent of any article by Tim.
378.Here is Tims article for everyone to read now, save having to get Mike to put it up.
smear, smear, smear, indefinite article, adjective, smear, smear smear, adverb, smear, preopsition, smear, smear.
New para
etc
MODERATED
tim’s guest article - approved as legal, decent and honest.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ln7QnBlGeDY/Sjnuc07DVII/AAAAAAAAAws/Uk_fsgp145Q/s400/redacted.bmp
414 What little proof there’s ever been that you are married, a millionaire and a farmer is somewhat flimsy. Keep living the dream.
416: ‘Oh the big housing plan U-turn, local houses for local jobs is complete, no new laws’
The BNP will be disappointed. They’ve been congratulating Gordon on this policy albeit in the tone of better late than never:
http://bnp.org.uk/tag/council-housing/
Haven’t you heard NPMP, Tim is in and you are out.
NPMP = New Tim
425. Nick, since you’re hear.
The ITV news said the case for ID cards as a weapon against terrorism had been “exaggerated”. Were you mislead?
430 - As they say, knows more about Tupac than tractors, thats our Fiddling Farmer Tim!
German court delays Lisbon Treaty
Germany’s highest court set a new obstacle for the Lisbon Treaty when it ordered the country’s constitution to be changed before the controversial document can enter into law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/5700020/German-court-delays-Lisbon-Treaty.html
Seems like for a constitution, I mean treaty, that was just supposed to do nothing more than a little tidying up of EU affairs, is requiring some big changes! Or is it just me?
From same article,
“poll found that 77 per cent of Germans want a referendum on the treaty.”
435. Hmmmmm….. I wonder if that could string things out until May 2010? Perhaps we may just get our referendum yet? ;0
430 - Has Tim ever claimed to be a millionaire?
He has mentioned being privileged (oh the irony) of being in the top 2% of the wealthiest on the planet, but considering how many in China and India are on 2s.6p a day, that might not mean very much at all.
Would be fascinated to know as googling produces diddly squat.
So how long did ‘homes for honkies’ last - less time than yobs to cashpoints?
This is a new low, surely.
437 - The article seems to suggest no to that thought, it states they expect it will be sorted in a few months. My point wasn’t really that I thought it would delay matters, it was that the German constitution was having to be changed to accommodate this “tidying up exercise”.
349. We need some way of getting rid of crap teachers.
438 ‘Has Tim ever claimed to be a millionaire?’
In tims post at 414 he appears to suggest he’s a ‘Married Millionaire’ or a ‘Married Millionaire Farmer’. Of course it could just be a cynical excuse to bring up Gordon Browns favourite election bottling subject of IHT. Who knows?
‘Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive’
Anyone else sink a couple of hundred that Brown would still be PM on 1st July? Nice little bonus this week!
Make sure you pay promptly Shadsy!
Crikey Balls is talking utter crap on Channel 4.
What a bunch of useless idiots Labour are when they come on the TV and say utter rubbish!
441, space cannon?
442 - I’m different from Dave though.
I don’t want all the subsidies and tax cuts Dave plans to hurl at the rich and the married.
Dave believes middle income people should feel the pain, but the rich should not.
442- I actually picture tim as a British Eddie Albert.
444: ‘Crikey Balls is talking utter crap on Channel 4.’
Yes, Balls’s spending promises have imploded! More ‘ifs’ than a warehouse full of the collected poems of Rudyard Kipling.
425 NickP - Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks very much as though New Labour has managed to paint itself into a corner whereby we get all the expense of ID Cards, but not a single one of the original alleged benefits can possibly be attainable.
In other words, without getting into any arguments about the merits or demerits of the original idea, you are literally burning our money on a completely pointless exercise.
I’ll be interested in your response.
346 antifrank “No, it is a clear jab at his homosexuality. Those on the left aren’t guiltless either - references to Mrs Dale’s Diary fall into the same category.”
For the sake of accuracy I’ve used “Mrs Dales Dairy” for some time. It’s a simple play on the early 50’s radio show Mrs Dales Diary. Nothing to do with Iain Dale batting for the other side.
444 - he was poor wasn’t he.
I had to turn the tv over.
448 - *applause, bravo, more!*
450
Jack W
I’ll bet you have never recovered from the programme being axed from the schedules
Help yourself with a trip down memory lane
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/radio/siteindex/index.htm
I actually think that Eddie Balls in his tiny mind regards himself as a stellar media performer (Or maybe that should be Stella if his mate McBride has anything to do with it), when nothing could be further from the truth.
453 MTF. Thanks but that’s nothing …. I still have withdrawl symptoms from BBC staff not wearing black bow ties !!
442 – I tend to skip over Tim’s posts, but you are quite right that in post 414 he ‘alludes’ to being one…as so many other things. No doubt he is a sad inadequate that seeks attention, more to be pitied than ridiculed.
So ‘poster of the year’ has gone. last heard of in flagrante dilecto with a warthog. I’m supposed to be doing a VO with someone who I think he described as an ex. I must remember not to mention the warthog.
130. “THE WORD “lie” means something very specific. It doesn’t mean a misleading statement, or an exaggeration, or a half-truth: it is a falsehood advanced intentionally and knowingly.”
Both Gordon Brown and Ed Balls have intentionally and knowingly advanced falsehoods on the debt and spending figures. Thus they have both lied.
I think this comment from an anonymous minister sums it up:
“We don’t care if the commentators or the economists turn against us… This is all about shoring up the base in the northern heart-lands, which we lost in the European elections. We don’t want or need them to understand the nuance of the argument. We just want them to hate the Tories again.”
**** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD **** NEW THREAD
Will Andy Murray Win Norwich North In Straight Sets ??
458 - Fraser Nelson accused Cameron of lying yesterday.
Alan Johnson’s ID card U-turn is looking more and more like a spectacular gaffe. Goes to show that just because the guy was a postman and is constantly delighting us with his ‘great one-liners’ doesn’t make him PM material. The Labour Party should look elsewhere; that’s my advice.
457 - The real reason he left is that he listened to the Tory doomsters on here and put off buying a flat.
446 I think you’ll discover that farming subsidies are nothing to do with Tory policy, but the will of the EU - most notably the French.
My farming friends hate the CAP - it makes working hard pointless despite hundreds of years of tradition and 24/7 working.
Very few farmers are in the mould of Brian Alridge - most are like my neighbours - missing fingers, grizzled, jumpers full of holes, old and tired, with kids that don’t want to continue with the family business.
It is heart-breaking.
When these salt of the earth people have gone, we will live to regret it.
Those who sneer should spend a day living this life.
The trouble for Cameron at PMQ’s now is that hes overloaded with choice. Time for a new thread Mike/Morus . What SHOULD Cameron go on at PMQ’s.
465. Brown’s throat.
Somethin’s Still Rottin’ in the State of South Carolina
Latest development: Luv Gov Mark Sanford (R-SC) has admitted more meetings - including in New York City - with his Argentinian friend. Thus directly contradicting his now legendary televised confession.
Believe the tide is going out for Mr. Sanford. Right out of the gate just about half of SC voters wanted him to resign. And given his lame defense, the number of thumbs down is sure to increasing.
Here are the arguments so far advanced why he should NOT resign:
1. He’s a 21st century King David. Am NOT making this up, this is his own defense. Really.
2. Must stay to avoid affecting the 2010 Governor’s race (in which incumbent cannot run because he’s term limited). Huh? Only people who appear to be swallowing this brand o’ hogwash (which always in plentyful supply in Palmetto State politics) are seg academy grads (and dropouts) prominent in meanass rightwing wacko circles. Who believe the Republican Lieutenant Governor is a dangerous liberal. Of course he is!
Methinks the rising power is Mrs. Sanford.
Not only is Jenny Sanford a woman scorned, fighting (in her eyes and press statements) for her four sons. She is “an Old Testament woman with a 170 IQ” according to her supporters among the leadership of the state’s Christian conservative rightwing Republican community.
Jenny Sanford is a former Wall Street fast-track exective who traded for a life as a mother AND the woman who made Mark Sanford first a Congressman - against the odds by the way - and then a two term Governor. With a quirky but postive reputation as a hard-line fiscal conservative who was sincere about his family values and moral fervor. A guy with clear potential for US Senate and who knows?
However, in the course of about a year, Mark Sanford has blasted that to helll and Buenos Aires. Because he’s broken with his wife.
Indeed, think it’s not inconcievable Jenny Sanford could rise from the ashes of the Love Gov’s career, to herself become a force and even a candidate in her own right in 2010.
Mrs Sanford was the brains and organizing force behind her hubby’s rather erratic talents. His failure to drop his tango lessons, despite heaps of Christian fellowship & marital counseling (which by the way is very serious stuff, so don’t think I’m knocking or scorning it) mean’s his political future “is not my concern.”
It also means that while she has worked to save her marriage, Mrs Sanford is NOT standing by her man. And the good people of SC a) notice this; and b) support her in this.
What’s to stop her from instituting divorce preceedings and running for Governor? Not like she’s running against the Love Gov. Not officially anyway.
IF her kids go for it (and think they just might, youngest is ten, dead-cert they’ve worked with her on previous campaigns, and most or all of them have the political bug) she comes out of the gate a VERY formidible candidate.
1. Mark Sanford may have had the great thoughts (though I’m starting to doubt even this) but it was Jenny who wrote the speechs and/or drove the drafts. So she can take up the mantle of rightwing GOP “reform” without hubby’s baggage (which is now touring the state in a fleet of moving vans).
2. Jenny Sanford now has serious potential to generate very significant support from women across South Carolina. Which extends WAY beyond conservative White Christian Republicans. Plus her name recognition is near total.
3. As for her own negatives, they are minimal and correctable given current situation. Biggest negative is she’s seen as rather cold and pushy, leastways according to Deep South standards. Note Jenny Sanford is orignally from Winnetka, burb of Chicago and was successful Wall Streeter. However, these qualities are also rather gubernatorial. Actually think that if SHE was governor (or her husband had listende to her and/or she was still giving him political advice, the last legislative session - cited as the reason he needed to commune with himself on the Appalachian Trail - would NOT have been such a horror show.
So Shadsy, respectfully suggest you start making book on Jenny Sanford.