Is this now a generational thing?
June 22nd, 2009
Will the remaining votes split by their age groups?
As we wait for the final result to be declared it strikes me that this is a generational battle - with Bercow picking up the younger age groups and Young the old one.
And given that those who went out after round two were all above 60 I just wonder whether that gives a touch of hope to Young.
I’m not betting on it though.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
First!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No
4th
[Hope Brecow's not] FIRST.
Damn,
I was just about to lay claim to having been first in two of the last three threads but I had to put a smiley in and so missedcx it.
3….Third would be nice.
Norman Lamb in typical Lib Dem mode… he voted for George Young in the first round and has now voted for John Bercow!
Bercow in a lightbulb, Martin?
Beeb 24 - Norman Lamb switched from Young to Bercow in final round.
9, I wonder if he has a Mark Senior type hatred of Tories. Still, can’t expect him to defy the Labour whip.
8. Yes if he gets elected it will be my fault for not doing Bercow in a lightbulb!
I had not thought about it till now!
7. 9.
Lib Dems!
Bizzare.
7. Why did he do this?
7/9. How did he justify that?
Generational? Partly. Young has had a depth of experience in the HoC that Bercow doesn’t - and that is important.
But mostly, it’s about Bercow being a tit who is willing to be a Labour glove-puppet.
Result to be at 8.30 according to Adam Boulton
10 MD. Eh …. to subtle for me !!
9. Lamb to the slaughter then at the next election!
Lib Dems supporting Labour, as usual
I’ll bet Gollum hasn’t got the younger Conservative MPs voting for him.
13 - John Bercow produced a bar chart, showing only John Bercow can win here.
17, just remarking that it’s not unusual for the Lib Dems to play the part of abused girlfriend to Labour’s thuggish boyfriend. And that many Lib Dems are just anti-Tory.
14 LS. On balance Bercow was more of a outright reformer.
16 talking of Adam Boulton, he hasn’t got hilariously angry for some time. I tink he needs another ‘non-election’ so that he can lose the plot with ministers.
I am Boulton, hear me roar!!!!
What if Bercow wins and the Tories just abstain en mass from the confirmatory vote? Instant constitutional crisis.
Bet £20 on Young. Gut feeling that people don’t want to vote for a pompous twat.
20. Crikey if Bercow wins they will have to put a booster cushion in the chair! He will also need some steps to get upto the chair!
I reckon the cartooninst will put him in a Nappy!
20 Bercow is older than me and I wouldn’t vote for His Weaseliness.
25
They will bide their time….
23. What happened to your infallible prediction of the result, btw?
It’s a free country, GIN. And I imagine he will have spoken to others, who will have persuaded him that Bercow is not as bad as all that….
Personally, I think he is, or even worse, but as Mike says, it is a generational thing. I remember Bercow well back in the 80s. He was a rat then, but the Young Conservatives absolutely adored him.
22 MD. Which is why Lamb voted for two Tories !!
24 and for the record, its because he was made to stand in a plant pot outside the White House for Barack Obama’s ‘first one hundred days’ and report on the First Dog doing a doody.
Humiliating waste of the senior political anchor - it was the ruin of him.
29, why bother? Instant crisis would be good for Parliament by getting a competent non-arsekisser into the chair, would help strengthen calls for an immediate election and would draw attention to the tribal nature of a Bercow victory.
This “debate” on oral cancer and dentisty isn’t getting any more interesting, I am sorry to report.
25
Not really. That wold only come about if he lost the confirmatory vote. Anything else would simply be the Tories expresing their displeasure. It would be interesting and perhaps a sign of things to come but it would not precipitate anything as such.
He got hilariously angry when Purnell ['man of honour'] resigned and no one ['cowards!'] followed.
I thought he was about to kill a puppy.
36, not so sure. A lack of confidence immediately expressed by a third of the House weeks after the former Speaker was ousted would be a big news story.
26 ..Blair….Brown?
please no tw*tcow
FPT
427. Richard. Hello!
Going back to our previous debate (following my outing as Not Quite As Eurosceptic As Before), the reason I didn’t reply to your arguments was that I know you are, morally and philosophically, correct. Remember they used to be my arguments, too.
Eurosceptics are right. The EU is a travesty of what it could be - it is corrupt, absurd, grasping, mendacious and essentially undemocratic - as shown by the europhile responses to referendum reversals and, now, Cameron’s fulfilment of a promise. They would rather see a politician break a solemn promise than hinder European integration.
So, don’t worry, I still despise europhiles, especially the treacherous British variety, epitomised by Duff and Clegg and Kinnock and Mandelson. Et al.
However I have mixed my euroscepticism with pragmatism. Fact is, I fail to see any conditions under which we entirely leave. Our best bet is therefore to reform it (however difficult that appears, it’s easier than leaving). And the EU ideal still has great merit.
For this reason I totally applaud Cameron’s move today. Given that we are stuck with the EU we need a better EU. And the first step to a truly democratic and supportible EU must be the construction of a viable EU opposition, which opposes further integration.
It’s a paradox, of course. But true nonetheless. Europhiles are too dim and bigoted to see this truth.
35 - i doubt a debate on this subject has ever had such attention paid to it!
a p*ss poor candidate for speaker - WINNING HERE!
True and I would like to see it. But since he would have passed all the necessary mechanisms to get him into the position, unless he could be shamed into standing down (which seems unlikely) then it would not provoke a crisis as no action would need to be taken one way or another.
28. Ooh! You a hot twenty-something?
As Bercow is my MP, I’m effectively disenfranchised by this if he becomes speaker - where’s the fun in that?
If Bercow wins, will there be a betting market on how long he lasts? What do we all think?
37 hehehe yes, you are right - but it wasn’t the fires of Hell that he rained down on Smuts the day after Marr announced the PM was unavailable for elections due to massive under table quivering.
Lamb, of course, is the guy who beat Iain Dale by 10,000 votes at the 2005 election. He was defending a majority of just a few hundred.
Jim Knight MP has heard rumours it is a dead heat John Mann to get casting vote
5 minutes ago from txt
Twitter rumour - Bercow by 15
Think that might be a joke
25. It pretty much happened in 2000. 289 MPs refused to endorse Martin, and 8, including Bercow voted against!
49, god, I hope not.
Also, why the hell is this vote taking place when 40 odd MPs are off in Europe? It’s barmy.
51 - yes! post 50 is Jim Knight too which one assumes is more serious…
Tom Harris has tweeted that Bercow has won 302-297
52, different times though.
From Andrew Sparrow in the Guardian:
8.24pm: The division bell has just gone. We’ll get the result at 8.30pm.
According to the latest intelligence, the whips on both sides think Sir George Young has won.
48 and uses 70s kids show ‘Runaround’ as his voting template
Tom Harris has Bercow by 5 (302-297)
44 You bet … [I was once].
55, a total f***ing disgrace if true.
55. Almost a perfectly split House. And so the crisis carrys on….
going to be close
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/22/commons-speaker-contest-election-live
8.24pm: The division bell has just gone. We’ll get the result at 8.30pm.
According to the latest intelligence, the whips on both sides think Sir George Young has won.
If it is very tight, then corporeal is wrong.
We have a story.
377. Just because the article states clearly that nothing else in the charter revokes the right to defend oneself militarily, doesn’t mean it doesn’t allow military action outside of this.
Bercow by 51
It’s Bercow
Its bercow
Labour win.
Good result for Bercow
So parliament hasn’t got the message yet, well we’ll just have to make it louder, fiercer and longer.
Cash for honours, expenses fraud, partisan politicking when parliament is already in disgrace. We think their behaviour is disgusting and all they do is stick two fingers up to us by behaving in exactly the same manner.
Suicidal, absolutely suicidal; they had another chance and they’ve blown it.
MPs showing their face on here can expect no quarter from me at least, for making it, or letting it happen, if they thought I was angry with them before then they ain’t seen nothing yet.
Bercow by 51. Disgrace.
Oh ferfuxsake! Bercow!
Bercow has it
reasonably large majority considering the situation
Even Bercow was surprised at the result.
This house can sink no lower
40
Don’t worry Sean, the thing that distinguishes us from the likes of ‘he who shall not be mentioned’ is that we can see that there is no such thing as black and white and therefore are able to have a reasoned debate about the things we disagree about. Thankfully that goes for much of the PB.com crowd as well.
Oh and of course the other difference is that we have a sense of humour where as ‘he who shall be spurned as a rabid dog’ had his surgically removed at birth.
So, I hear you are thinking of applying to join the European Movement and the Lib Dems next week.
64 Is that the Labour ‘intelligence’ which said they were going to lose Glenrothes?
Damn it it’s Bercow.
So much for the tweeting masses. Glad there wasn’t a really close vote at the end.
Disgrace on them all.
Parliament is in crisis, it has next to no connection to the people anymore.
Labour Hold
not much clapping on the blue side!!
Gutted, sickening little twerp.
Brown’s got his man.
Yeah! I won something.
Special prize for the 5%’rs Mike?
Our politics is descending into farce.
Splendid. Well done JB.
Bets will be settled within 20 mins for winners at ladbrokes.
I cant remember who I bet with on this. I think it was Stan James.
Frankly I dont much care about the anoraky arguments on this one. Its collect time.
Frank Field, top tipster.
Labour are a disgrace.
Tories should relax. If they don’t like Bercow they can just kick him out when they reach power, as being the vile spawn of the Thieving Parliament.
I doubt a single voter would complain.
Time to make Bercow the PPC for Peckham methinks.
Oh well, the final act of defiance is carried out from the dying Labour administration. The Tories will get their revenge in the next Parliament.
Grim news. A black day for Westminster.
It’s not Beckett. Which is something small and insignificant to hold onto…
well at least he is a reformer, lets give him a chance to put his promises into practice!
Gollum has the precious
Middle Earth is lost
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
He has done what we all knew he would - left the Tory benches to serve Labour.
Looks like they’re not even going to bother with the confirmatory ballot! Bollocks….
Why do people think Bercow is such a bad choice? Is it because he is favoured by more Labour MPs than Tories?
I just feel a deep sense of shame.
God..it’s all about him isn’t it
92. Exactly, and replace him with someone Labour will hate.
92 Absolutely.
The next PMQ will be interesting, won’t it?
Good for George Osborne starting to applaud from the front bench.
92. I’m confident that Bercow’s plans to hit the GMTV sofa running will ensure that the population loathe him by the time of the next election.
Sidebottom on a hat trick.
Will Bercow be as bad we all fear?
Look how few of the Tory benches were clapping Bercow. Cameron and Osborne just about managed to move their hands together.
Playing to the Labour benches already. Tw*t.
Wasn’t Bercow the joint top MP’s expenses claimer for three out of the last five years?
The biggest trougher gets the Speaker’s job, nice one!
102. Most of them probably dont know.
What is Speaker Bercow doing with his tongue? He’ll really have to drop this lip licking thing…..
111. Ed Balls supports him.
102 - Read my posts, parliament has not understood how they are seen and disgraced themselves even more.
This is now a real fight to discredit as many MPs as possible before the election.
The media have it in their hands now.
At least John Bercow will never have to campaign for the Party ever again!
Hes sooooooooooooooooooo slow….geeez 4am finishes for all the MPs!
Calm down, everybody. Labour still rules the roost at Westminster, and they got their choice. In retrospect, it seems a bit silly to have expected that a true blue Tory would have won in that environment. Politicians play at politics, and these are the very same MP’s who saw nothing wrong in gorging at the public trough to their hearts’ delight. What exactly were you expecting?
“not the time for a lengthy diatribe”
cue
“lengthy diatribe”
99. I think malcolms post sums up
both the attitude and the motivation of Labour MPs in this disgraceful election.
Shame on you malcolm.
Ladbrokes have already settled their market. Well done Shadsy.
119 Which one?
104. That’s exactly it. It is all about him, and that’s all it’s ever been about, his whole rather grotty career.
Disastrous decision for the house of commons.
11. Yes.
55,59 Ugh. A very good result for Sir George Young in a Labour-dominated House, but not quite good enough.
40 If Europhiles had any sense, they’d realise that a proper Opposition was good for them, as they’d actually have to make their case.
I wonder where the graun got its idea for the pic from?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/22/commons-speaker-election-plot
117 - Well that confirms it. I’m not sure who i want to slap with a wet haddock more, Bercow or Balls
Here’s Freaky Brown
92 - Seant, Bercow isn’t the issue, it’s the manner of this *now* when parliament is already in disgrace.
They are carrying on as though nothing has happened.
F*ck them all, quite frankly.
Splendid choice, and really the only alternative to imposing an establishment figure. The Tory Toff campaign didn’t work against Cameron because he deosnt fit with the media narrative; G. Young does and the issue would have had serious traction in the red-tops and left-leaning press. Good on Bercow!
Is Brown pissed?
Bercow can’t be as bad as Martin…..can he?
A £130 overall profit on Bercow, plus £10 from Morus which he hasn’t realised yet, plus a winning bet, as recommended here, on it being settled in just three rounds, so a good day’s work overall.
Tempting as it is to say that this is a further demonstration of Labour’s exquisite inability to do the right thing in any circumstance, the Labour masses who have elected Bercow have done the right thing from a strategic perspective. It was a very clever move to allow the touting of Beckett to leak - outside of the political anoraks supporting Bercow does not seem a partisan move in the slightest, whereas Beckett’s appointment would have played badly on Main St. As it is, there will be no comeback against Labour for this vote, beyond those who already see the worst in them. However, Bercow will be a greater thorn in the side of an incoming Tory government than Young would be.
If it matters at all, that is…
Indeed there is an argument to say Bercow will have to rein in his horrible lefty weird bien pensant creepiness, because he knows Cameron will have a mandate to reform EVERYTHING when he reaches power. And this will include the ROLE of Speaker, let alone the player.
Let’s see how Bercow reacts to this truth.
“Most members are honourable decent people have come into politics…to serve the people…not feather their nests’
Oh great…..another Shop Steward for MPs….
And Gordon Brown wants him to be there for 33 years…..
Bercow!!!!!!!!!!!
(Sorry just got in from the pub)
Will he issue a guide to ‘how to become speaker’ now!!!!!!!!!
Oh poo. At least I was correct in my prediction that there would be three rounds.
So the House disgraces itself again.
No surprise then, the Labour stitch up succeeds. The lemmings continue to career headlong toward the cliff edge…
With Bercow the speaker, Brown will look less arrogant. Damn!
129 Perhaps Morris Dancer could invent you a double-handed wet haddock-slapper… Maybe as part of the pre-firing entertainment for the masses?
Brown made a funny joke - first time ever!
Gawd makes a funny !!
So how soon before we hear of more retirements at the next GE?
Young, Haselhurst, Lord, Cormack, Beith, Beckett and Shepherd?
97
The trouble is to eb a reformer you have to understand how the thing works that you are reforming. Otherwise you are just a vandal. That is the lesson we have learnt from the last 12 years of Labour misrule. I have serious doubts if Bercow has sany more knowledge of the intricacies of the system than Blair or Brown. (remember the debacle with the Lord Chancellor anyone?)
To be honest, up until his speech today I was indifferant about John BerK-ow and coundn’t see people had this irrational loathing of him. After his speech, a speech in which he openly moaked one of the mombers he’s supposed to be representing, I must say I find him an odious sh*t myself. Still, no use complaining now. We’re stuck with him until at least May 2010.
143, that’s possible. Or we could breed the enormo-haddock! Large enough to slap two persons at once.
136 Clever in the short term, not in the long term.
Straw seems to be gloating over to the oppostion benches..
And they laugh now with no care about how they are seen outside.
For god’s sake will some of them wake up at least to what is happening outside. Acknowledge that you are in disgrace and stop behaving like a bunch of kids with their hands in the biscuit jar.
Tories heckle Brown as he states the party divisions have been overcome.
While I obviously don’t think that it was the majority’s duty to elect a speaker the Tory posters on here would invite to their birthday parties, I have to say that Bercow does not come across as particularly likeable. I hope he will be better on the issues.
God. I’m not sure I can put up with this knobjockey for the next 10 years.
Tell me this is a bad dream. Please.
Will his first missive be ‘How To Claim Maximum ACA’ I wonder?
“We’re stuck with him until at least May 2010.”
A decent candidate against him will stop that.
Bercow listened to Brown smiling, Cameron gets up, he’s stony faced. Doesn’t bode well.
My god, I’ve praised George Osborne and laughed at one of Gordons jokes.
I need a drink.
So - after weeks and weeks of revelations about MPs taking us all for a ride re expenses they elect as Speaker an MP who had one of the highest expense claims of all and had to pay back CGT that he’d managed to avoid. What a shower of shits: I can’t wait to get rid of them all. I hope the Tories put him on notice that at the first sign of bias towards Labour they will make it clear that he cannot be assured of being automatically confirmed as Speaker after the next election.
“156.“We’re stuck with him until at least May 2010.”
A decent candidate against him will stop that.”
156 - Whoops, thought you said 2019!!
Mea culpa.
Let’s see how long Bercow withstands the dirt-digging of Guido. There’ll be plenty of Tories to help him out.
Lame-duck Speaker, anyone?
135,. Turned out nice again didnt it.
149 - Morris Dancer, I would be in your eternal debt, if you could do that.
But how do you go about ousting a Speaker, particularly a new one? Do you just call an election for Speaker, just like that, without cause?
Satisfactory outcome financially for me. Particularly pleased with my seven SELLS on SPIN, all profitable. A bit of trading around on and off Young and Beckett was pretty much neutral in the end.
Lesson: Lay rather than Bet in the early stages of a contest like this.
The result confirms Frank Field’s well deserved reputation for honesty and insight.
158 - cyanide
Well I hope I am proved wrong and is better than I expect him to be.
165 - the first four in the betting never had a chance, it was a perfect market to lay at the beginning.
150 - Sean, but that’s just it. I don’t see the long term disadvantage for Labour. In light of the sins that have passed, this barely registers. Like a parking fine on the charge sheet of an armed robber. So Labour were partisan? Pah! Like a Saffie prop boring in, they’ve got away with it. Few will care. look at the scoresheet etc But Bercow will be as friendly to the red side as a Tory speaker ever could be. In the circumstances, probably the best result they could have hoped for.
Well Clegg’s speech at least is a challenge about how awful they are all perceived. At least he sort of understands.
I’ve often found some of the Tory groupthink on here quite amusing, but tonight it’s quite hilarious.
Kudos.
162
168, me too. But I doubt it.
God. I’m not sure I can put up with this pompous little kn*bjockey for the next TEN YEARS.
Someone tell me it’s a bad dream. Please..
161 - the only problem with that will be, if Bercow lasts 5 minutes, Labour will then say because we’ve had a Tory Speaker it’s now Beckett’s turn for real.
164 - The speaker still has to be elected as an MP, and it’s (theoretically) possible that he might lose. Also, the new house has to confirm the speaker in the role, and it’s (again, mostly theoretically) possible that the new house won’t.
164. I would think any party can hold a vote of no confidence in the Speaker. If its the governing party, chances are it would be sucessful. Just think, we go centuries without a Speaker being removed from office, and then, like buses, two are about to come along at once.
172. The boot will be on the other foot when the Tories impose a speaker of their choice solely to piss off Labour MPs.
Now who would be a good candidate for that?
164 In theory they are re-elected after each election. Usually it is just acclamation. The House is asked is the House content. Everyone shouts aye no one shouts nay and so on. This time if the threatened murmurings are true some will shout after the next election Nay triggering a ballot on him immediately. The last time that happened was in 1835.
Does Galloway get to do a speech as Respeck leader?
Bercow picking people to say good things about him. Think he’s getting a stiffy!
175 could be 20 years….
He’s only 46
I like him cos I am projected to have less grey hair than him when I get to 46 (just) (and i still have to get there…)
Much better from Clegg, hopefully we can discredit as many troughing MPs in the main parties so those who voted against this sort of corruption are humiliated at the ballot box.
Ah. The Queen still has to approve.
C’mon Your Maj. Do the right thing!
172 Better Tory group think on here than Labour group think running the country - for now.
If Bercow doesn’t want to be challenged for the Speaker-ship after the next GE, he’d better start brown-nosing Cameron now.
This could back-fire on Brown.
179 David Davis perhaps?
164. He has to be re-elected at the start of a new Parliament, but by convention a sitting Speaker is unopposed. I think it would be a pretty easy convention to break though.
But therein lies the real problem, imo - will the Speakership from now on be openly politicized. If so, it can’t last more than a few years in its present form.
Why does Peter Kilfoyle think the media got the Speaker election wrong?
Labour have scored here politically, like it or not. They look bipartisan to the uninformed or barely informed masses, while the Tories look petty, childish and contradictory, and there sits Bercow in the catbird seat until the Tories either 1) try to oust him some day or 2) just live with him. Either way, Labour have made life more difficult for the Tories.
164. The Commons, as the expression of the sovereign will of the people, can basically do what it likes. We have no written Constitution.
Remember, parliament executed a king once.
Getting rid of a popinjay like Bercow, unless he shapes up, will take about three minutes for a brand new government mandated to reform the system.
187 - Troughers are likely to be challenged by independents and if there are no main party candidates then it will be an election focused solely on his financial shenanigans.
187 - he almost certainly will
176 They can try certainly but would a Tory majority House if that’s what is listen to them.
Would also say that the Tories have not behaved well tonight - one can clap without enthusiasm but one must clap; in the same way one claps off the victors after under 13s rugby. Kipling had a line about it, I believe. triumph and disaster etc. By all means laugh when Brown tries to make a ridiculous point about crossing party lines (sense of humour is important) but he won a fair fight and he should be applauded for doing so.
People sem to miss the problem with Bercow. It is not that he will be anti-Conservative. In fact if anything after the next general election we want a Speaker who is instictively anti-government. If it had been likely we would have had a Labour government then we would have wanted a vaguely anti-Labour Speaker to try and hold the executive to account. Since it looks likely we will have a Tory government then having a vaguely anti-Tory Speaker is a good thing.
What is not a good thing is that Bercow is simply not up to the job. He is not a reformer as we would like to see and his idea of opposing one side is to ingratiate himself with the other. That is not how a Speaker should work.
Personally I wuold hope that we would see someone stand against Bercow at the election and him lose his seat. Then we can have another election for Speaker and get someone like Frank Field in who has some idea of how Parliament is supposed to work and what the balance of power between the executive and Parliament is supposed to be.
Heh. Apparently Cameron quoted the line including “get it” that was so instantly derided on here earlier… Perhaps it sounded better second time round?
Icarus wins - well £2.06 on the speaker election!
All going on Harrison ’s Flyer in the 8.50 at Chepstow! - currently 28-1 on Betfair (The sort of odds I like)
194?
Look, I’d have preferred Young, but what’s all this “They just don’t get it?” come from? The bottom line is that Young talked about procedural change, and Bercow talked about cultural change, and if MPs were really trying to “get it”, I imagine they thought the public were more angry at the failure of Westminster’s culture than its procedures.
embit organising a drink with someone in the gallery.
180 Oh, how I hope so.
I doubt if even 10 Conservatives voted for him in the last round.
Well, we’ve got to live with him till May 2010, but then all bets are off.
193 there are always independent challengers in the Speaker’s seat - and there will be again next time
But he is safe for as long as he wants it and that could be 2030…
191 - Most tories won’t behave like those who post on here want them to.
Hence the front bench trying to get applause going.
OK some like Dorries will explode but frankly, who cares.
Lembit
123 Casino
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
196, how is it a fair fight to engage in tribalism over a Commons, supposedly non-partisan vote?
It worked well with Martin.
200 - He will start brown-nosing Cameron in order to avoid any challenge.
[197] - Is that not a bit harsh? I had a quick look at Bercow’s “manifesto” and it seems reasonably sensible, with some ideas for giving the backbenchers more power. I’ve not heard anything more radical floated by anyone else.
196. No they shouldn’t clap. He doesn’t have the support of one side of the House and they are right to make that known.
196 Eh?
He won a vote because he was thought to be a pain in the side of his own side by the larger team.
He won. On that we can agree.
“Ah. The Queen still has to approve”
Er does she?
I thought the whole point of the Speaker was thaht he or she was supposed to be Parliament’s representative. Does the Queen have any say in this at all? (If she does I think that is plain daft given the history of the post)
The size of the majority is interesting - either the LibDems switched en masse (which Steve Webb predicted they wouldn’t) or, more likely I think, Bercow got 10-20 Tory votes that he hadn’t had in the earlier ballots. People build up personal loyalties in this place for all kinds of accidental reasons.
But regardless of our personal preferences, it’s just as well the majority wasn’t as small as predicted. I think Bercow will be careful to be neutral, and I don’t think the Tories will move to replace him if they have a majority.
172 - indeed. I’d be grateful if anyone could give me a rational reason for Tory posters hating Bercow. It’s not as moving to the centre can be the problem as that would count for their entire front bench.
192. “Getting rid of a popinjay like Bercow, unless he shapes up, will take about three minutes for a brand new government mandated to reform the system.”
- No, it would be much more difficult than that. He may be elected with a mandate to reform (not that Cameron has made it his raison d’etre), but he has to respect the checks and balances of the constitution and the speaker is one of those. Face it, he’s there for the duration.
199. Did you have that chat with your MP in the end Icarus?
You may well be right about brown nosing Cameron but that doesn’t make it any better. It is still all about him and it shouldn’t be.
Stuart Bell full of shit as usual.
214, ooh, 10% of his own party.
Congrats on your partisan victory. Does it feel as good as breaking a manifesto commitment?
201 It comes from the fact that Labour have voted in their sycophant.
There are decent and honourable left wing Conservatives, like Sir George Young, Robert Key, Alistair Burt, Sir Peter Tapsell, who never fawn over the Government in the way that Bercow does.
214. NickPMP, you won’t be around in the next Parliament to help Bercow should the Conservatives decide to get rid of him.
214 The Leadership may not but I doubt they could control every last one of their MP’s. It only takes one to force a ballot and it’s clear that in the old cliche Bercow is political marmite now in the Commons.
What odds would you lot offer me on Bercow being speaker in 2 years’ time?
Just rewatching some BBC Parliament footage.
It’s *amazing* how coolly Bercow was received by the Tory benches. He hardly needed to be “dragged” to the chair. He got up and started walking and one of his colleagues had to grab his arm to make it look like he was being “pushed” as he left.
The Conservatives know just what an egotistical, pompous, self-centered little man Bercow is and they weren’t voting on party political lines. They were voting against Bercow because he’s a bad candidate.
Sir George Young would have made a much better speaker.
Labour have just divided the House of Commons and made a terrible, terrible mistake.
214 - Parliament is in disgrace and this has done nothing to help. In fact, it’s quite likely to have made things worse by exposing the partisan politics that takes the place of true atonement. Those MPs who think they have done a good thing are in for a very rude awakening. The issues are far bigger than you seeem to imagine.
By my estimation the Lib Dems went 5-1 for Bercow, although it is impossible to know for sure.
There were also about 10-20 Tory Bercow voters, and he seems to have done very well with the smaller parties.
Perhaps that Guido photo of him with Rangers fans backfired - it doesn’t seem to have cost him catholic labour votes but may have won him DUP votes?
Young seems to have carried about 70 Labour votes, good but not enough without the other opposition parties.
224, well quite. They went for Brown and now they’ve picked Bercow. It’s like they’re all drunk on the opposite of the Red Dwarf luck and intelligence viruses.
215 You are very late to the party. We have heard all this from Mike.
Then he saw Bercow.
And saw the light.
His conclusion, after telling us all off, was to be big about it and admit the error of his ways and to sgo so far as to say that keeping Martin might be a better option.
Go back and look at the treads and hear it from a LibDem rather than a Tory.
216. It is in fact remarkably easy. After a GE the House is asked if they agree that the previous Speaker should continue. If a majority says “No”, he’s out.
Wall St crashes on news of Bercow’s election. (-200)
216. What utter bollocks. The entire political system in this country is now held in contempt, or haven’t you noticed? We just elected our first Fascist tribunes.
Cameron will have a mandate for sweeping reform; the only “checks and balances” he will have to “respect” are those provided by public opinion. Voters won’t give a toss if some troughing insider is kicked out of the Speaker’s chair.
That said, Tories should be pleased that Young didn’t get the job. Another old Etonian in the highest office, would have been, long term, very dangerous for the posh party.
Beckett was the best bet, for the Tories, politically. But Labour seem to have realised that. Jewish son-of-a-cabbie John Bercow is, even so, not as damaging for the Tory image as old Etonian Young.
207. Malcolm - you are a childish d*ckhead.
Your maturity would shame a five-year old.
211,212
He won an election where each member of the electorate had a single vote and the freedom to exercise it in the way they wish, in secret. That is the definition of a fair fight.
I hold no candle for Labour and I don’t particularly like what they have done here (while admiring the machiavellian stroke of sending Beckett into play to distract the guns) but there is no point crying about it. You seriously overestimate the importance of the speaker.
The Tories need to accept this as a minor setback. Hell, if the only election you lose is one where the majority of the electorate belong to another party it’s hardly a disaster. Accept the result, move on. Bercow might be terrible - we will see. But he is not going to scupper the Tories for fun.
The most important question of the evening however, has Jack W’s arse ever been more exposed?
Ah well. That’s all folks.
Wrong side of the ledger for me this time. Well done to all those who made money and thanks to Mike, Robert and the team for keeping us all connected and informed. The site has coped fantastically with the traffic.
Particular hat tip to Nick Palmer who has been calling this pretty accurately throughout. Well done Nick.
The caravan does indeed move on and Beckett will have to move her’s off St Stephens Green immediately. My attentions now move across to SW19 where my 5/1 bet on Murray to win Wimbledon is of particular interest. He’s as short as 7/4 with Ladbrokes.
Go Andy! Britain expects!
215 - because he has spent the last 3-4 buttering up Labour MPs in the knowledge that he could slag off his own party as much as he wanted to and still get elected Speaker. Someone who has tried to become Speaker so sneakily, and so subversively, should never be allowed to be it. Much like how Gordon Brown, wanting to be Prime Minister at 14, should never have been allowed it for that very reason.
233 - it needs a bit of a kicking it get it working properly.
“He won an election where each member of the electorate had a single vote and the freedom to exercise it in the way they wish, in secret. That is the definition of a fair fight.”
Who gives a damn about what MPs want? A fair number have just been shown to have been (allegedly, I suppose) using taxpayers money for criminal activity.
Fairness from these people is a charade, a sick, twisted charade.
230 - You have been right on the danger for the Tories in a Young Speakership form day one.
Well done.
232 Oh, but putting the boot into him because of who he is, after May 2010, will be very heaven.
218. “It is still all about him and it shouldn’t be.”
Exactly. That is the problem with Bercow.
Of course, Labour voted for him for the worst of reasons: to irritate Conservatives.
Is that all that defines the Labour Party now?
They are upset they are going to lose very badly next year and think this is their chance to “land a blow” on the Tories.
Fine. They will still be out of office for over a Decade.
205- Who knows how his Speakership will play out, but revenge is indeed a dish best served cold. The Tory MP’s would indeed be wise to not show their anger publicly now, behave graciously, and take a wait-and-see attitude. Then strike like lightning post-election if they are really intent on getting rid of him.
Gosh- going onto this site is like reading some young Tory rant. Get over it. The speaker is a silly role anyhow.
Yes -he apologised for his letter - we parted as best mates!
Sean Fear
There doesn’t seem to be a single Conservative supporter here who supported him and hardly any Conservative MPs in the Commons who voted for him.
In that case why is Bercow sitting for one of the safest Conservative constituencies in the country.
Bercow is hardly a Conservative, he looks even by the standards of politicians to be a nasty little egotist and he’s heavily sleezy as well.
So why has there been no move to deselect him?
If the Conservative leadership didn’t want Bercow they have only themselves to blame.
Martin Salter MP: “He won because he was the reform candidate. This wasn’t about party-politics.”
But oh he isn’t and oh how it was!
242 booooooooooooooooooooooo!
We hate those who dont like tories!!!!!!!!!!!!!
244 - not really. The only thing they could have done with withdraw the whip, and all that would have done would be galvanise the Labour vote for him. He would have won in the first round. Cameron wasn’t leader or even in the shadow cabinet at the 2005 election, nor were most of the shadow cabinet now. So since they couldn’t actually remove Bercow from his seat mid-Parliament, I can’t quite see how it’s their fault.
Err? Disaster, Conservative voted in as speaker. Get real.
237 ukpaul - odd thing to say - not sure there was any other alternative method of electing the speaker on the table. I am not justifying MPs expenses, this parliament or anything else. I would love to have a general election tomorrow. But you can never judge an election by the qualifications of the electorate. It was fair.
244. “In that case why is Bercow sitting for one of the safest Conservative constituencies in the country.”
He was Conservative when he was selected a long-time ago and his constituency association fawn too much over him to even consider deselecting him.
Noone ever gets deselected.
I’m very disappointed by this result. How tragic that Gweneth Dunwoody isn’t alive, Charles kennedy isn’t sober and Ann Widdecome isn’t standing again.
There was a nice little anecdote from Steve Richards of the Independent on BBC News. Apparently Bercow told Richards after the 2005 election that he wanted to be speaker. Obviously why he didn’t defect, cos he never would have been elected as a Labour candidate.
I wonder if Martin Bell might consider standing against Speaker Bercow? Or Esther even?
re 214. I think Nick is right. It’s good that there was a solid majority. A clear decision was made.
245. I do hate Martin Salter the two-faced moron.
Bercow = Bag of Bollocks!
Now Bercow has the tights, how long till the poppers and orange jokes?
248. “Err? Disaster, Conservative voted in as speaker. Get real.”
Umm… No.
***LABOUR HOLD SPEAKERSHIP***
257 its the free will of Britain!!!!!!!
252. Gwyneth Dunwoody would have been perfect for the role.
Nobody will show me 2-1 on Bercow making it to June 2011?
244 By and large, if you’re a Conservative MP in a safe seat, you’re in for as long as you like, so long as you’re on good terms with about half a dozen key people in your constituency party. Strange but true; Tory activists just don’t deselect their MPs, whatever they think of them.
We had an idiot who allegedly represented Harrogate for 20 years, and only set foot in the constituency for the AGM, once a year, and still they reselected him.
Morus says Bercow is the first Jew to be Speaker - ever. Is that right?
If so, worthy of note. A son of Judah sits on the chair first occupied by Peter de la Mare in 1376.
Mazel tov!
252. Of course. Bercow has had all this planned out for years. For someone to be so sad that they are so desperate to be speaker they plot and campaign for it for years suggests they are suitable to be Speaker, IMO. A terrible, terrible mistake has been made here I fear….
John Bercow: what a horrible, contemptible man. What a shower of utter, utter bastards these MPs are who have foisted this man on themselves. Faced with the need to restore some sort of credibility to the system; with the need to find someone respected within and without the HoC and across party lines, they instead pick the candidate that will most annoy the other side.
On the plus side, he - surely - can’t be any better than Michael Martin. On the minus side, we’re now faced with this odious little creep for the next 25 years or so.
Our best hope now has to be for an independent candidate in Buckingham at the next GE. This now must be UKIP’s no. 1 target, surely?
They may as well have picked names out of a hat for all the good it will do them.
My feeling for a while has been that corruption is rife in parliament and the last few months have been a pleasing confirmation for me, as I have seen others catch up with the contempt that they deserve to have heaped on them.
260. “re 214. I think Nick is right. It’s good that there was a solid majority. A clear decision was made.”
Er. There was no solid majority. There was no clear decision.
This is a Labour party-political stitch-up.
There is evidence for this allllll over the blogosphere with Labour supporiting posters “hahahaa!”-ing wherever they can.
I know Bercow better than almost any other PBer. He is thick and lazy and we will all come to regret this day.
270 - gah - ‘can’t be any WORSE than Michael Martin’
247. Raven
Cameron has forced several Conservative MPs to stand down for the next election.
If he had wanted to he could have effectively done the same with Bercow. Okay Bercow could still have stood for Speaker but he would have been unelectable if his own Party Leader had said his conduct wasn’t suitable for an MP.
Thinking further though if Bercow has spent the last few years crawling to Labour MPs in preparation for this then who has the future power of patronage that he will still need. The answer being Cameron after the next election. Bercow can now effectively do what he wants and Labour can do nothing to stop him but he does have to create a favourable impression on Cameron.
I suspect that Brown has blundered again by thinking tactically and not strategically.
268 - A prize for every Zionist conspiracy theory spotted over the next week.
Tories on here attack with venom Bercow, but defend hysterically the racists and homophobes amongst their new allies.
Nasty Party?
271 I’m surprised the Lib Dems seem to have gone for Bercow.
270. I agree especially given his expenses. I think the right candidate could win in those circumstances. Hasn’t he said he will do just 9 years though?
275. Good point, Brown given two choices always picks the wrong one. *phew*
If Bercow does badly, Labour will get the blame for pushing him. If he does well, they won’t get any credit since that’s no more than people expect, and he’s an ex-Tory. This may not be just, but it’s the way people think.
As for keeping the speaker impartial, I’d say the government and opposition benches should be balloted separately as well as secretly. Then a majority of both benches can be required, with appropriate provisos to prevent opportunistic bench hopping. Getting a candidate supported by a majority of both government and opposition may be difficult, but anyone who is clearly has mass support across all parties.
In fact, it might be desirable to make all decisions relating to the internal affairs of the commons this way - select committee chairmen, changing the standing orders, etc - so it’s impossible for the government to to force changes through, however larger its majority. A landslide gives you license to run the country, not the commons.
tim, dear, WE are the masters now - get used to it for the next fifteen years or so. Does it hurt? Good.
Today is the first thing that has gone well for Mr Redactor, since the last time the jellyfish all got together in a room! I bet he will be rubbing his grubby paws in the bunker this evening, telling everybody who will listen, how he has pulled a strategic masterstroke on the Tory Toffs. All very predictable.
Test post, by the poster previously known as Steven Whaley, to try out my new name.
Labour ran against Speaker Weatherill in 1987; who will run against Speaker Bercow in 2009 or 2010.
280. And what do you do when you can’t get that?
277. The Lib’s ALWAYS go with Labour in the end. Thats why the Lib’s will never replace Labour as the second party. Lib-Dems will always be Labours patsy. Sad, but true.
277. They’ve a habit of electing prats as leader.
Bercow to leave the office of Speaker before 1 Jan 2011
4/1 Yes
1/7 No
284. threaten them with a lib dem - that seems to have concentrated some minds this time round.
287 - thats generous if anyone thinks the Tories are very very stupid.
I doubt Cameron is that stupid so won’t be taking those odds.
287
I might have a bit of that Shadsy, tomorrow, when I’ve cooled down. 4/1 quite generous I think.
Also getting a few messages already with talk of getting together to support someone as an ‘independent conservative’ against Bercow at the GE. I’ll let you all know if I hear anything firmer.
289. Why would it be stupid for the Conservatives to remove Labours stooge candidate when they have nice majority in the Commons to do so? I would call sensible.
267. Sean Fear
The utterly dredful Robert Banks who I believe had his constituency home in Essex.
I only ever saw him once on TV. Once was enough though as he was complete crap.
Many safe Conservative seats do need to be shaken up though and their MPs replaced and with sleeze allegations, a time for a change feeling and the Conservatives well ahead in the polls this is the time to do it.
From the Times:
“NH 21.16 We now have a Tory Speaker - the first since 1992 - who is vehemently disliked by most of his own party. Speculation is rife in Westminster tonight that the Conservative Party would try to get rid of him as soon as they were elected next year. But would they really want to pick such an introverted first battle of their administration? He won easily tonight but unless Bercow puts in a stellar performance in the coming weeks, he may soon find himself with very few friends on either side of the House.”
290, imagine that. Bercow AND Balls losing at the next GE.
If that doesn’t merit the breeding of an enormo-haddock I don’t know what does.
Will Haselhurst remain dept speaker then?
294. Enormo-haddock? Are you going soft on space-artillery?
293. Well, the very first thing they will do is repeal ID cards. But getting rid of Bercow will do as the second thing….
276. Who is the first person around here to allude to a Zionist conspiracy? Yep, business as usual from the smearmeister-in-chief.
Surprise suprise. He had a post ready to post on Comment Is Free:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/22/john-bercow-speaker-commons-parliament
298 - Just ignore the pratt.
suprise=surprise
237 Casino
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, haha, ha.
Hahah.
Hahahahah.
Wonderful to hear the Tory Boys crying into their Pimms No 1. God, I hope Cameron is head shoulders above you guys when he wins the next election and we get rid of this nasty little fascistic government of Brown et al. The thought of sad little boys like you running the country………
Now back to Hindemith.
296, Morris Dancer’s man cannon is never soft!
I’m merely responding to the intense pb.com demand for genetically enlarged haddock for the purposes of slappage and slapcraft.
OOH Alan Duncan avoids the question…
303. Ah, pre-flight checks.
304, ?
305, it’s well-known that space cannon ammunition require extensive slapping with enormo-haddock to prepare them for Earth-to-space travel.
295 - Haselhurst is the senior of the deputy speakers (Chairman of Ways and Means) so if they go by seniority then it will be Sir Michael Lord who returns to the backbenchers to be replaced as Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means by a Labour MP. That is of course unless Haselhurst decides to stand down himself.
Can someone please let me know how to search google for past PB comments? I know I have seen it mentioned here… It would be much appreciated.
Yet another useless berk appointed to a key Westminster post.
So, yet another great day for the campaign for Scottish independence.
293,297. surely they will see how he gets on as speaker first?!
308 - Go to google advanced search and search the site.
308 Stars and Stripes
These old posts of mine may help
http://www6.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/03/26/whats-been-pbs-one-in-a-million/#comment-981828
http://www6.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/03/26/whats-been-pbs-one-in-a-million/#comment-981833
http://www6.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/03/26/whats-been-pbs-one-in-a-million/#comment-981836
I’m so disappointed. I don’t care that I’ve lost my stake - but Berkhow is just too much to take.
What are the Tories et al going to do to get rid of this poisonous oik?
Well it took quite a bit of risky trading on Bercow to get out out of my off the wall bet on Widdy and failed insurance on Becket - just clawed back to a small loss overall
284, lock them all in the Commons until you do get that level of consensus, much like happens when electing a pope. That could get unpleasant, but it should be. MPs need to be discouraging with extreme prejudice from making on a partisan basis the decisions that decisions that need to be made impartially, such as who the speaker is.
Thus, I’d happily lock them in the commons until they drop tribal loyalties for once, and find someone who can get the majority support of both benches.
Cheer up, Conservatives. I don’t think it’s as bad as you think…
311/312- Many thanks, tim and wibbler!
316, interesting post. I’ll believe it when I see it though.
310. Well yes, they will have until May 2010 to see how Bercow performs. But I mean, heres a man that admitted to a journalist as long ago as 2005 that he wanted to Speaker. A man that considered crossing the floor to sit with Labour, but decided against it, because he thought it would harm his Speakership ambition. A man that stood up this afternoon and openly mocked one of the members he will now be repsenting. A man thats been given this position for no other reason than Labour wanting to annoy Cameron. Exactly the kind of games they played with Michael Martin and look how that turned out. Given what we know of the character, can you see him being any good? I have my doubts….
302 But we will be running the country. We’re here, we’re Tory, get used to it.
283 I helped campaign for Wetherill back in 87 and thought it was disgraceful that we needed to at the time.
I would relish the chance to do so against Berkow this time around, I’m livid at this Labour stitch-up and spineless Liberal creeping.
Will be interesting 1st time Brown starts talking about Conservative policy in answer to a question, will the new Speaker have the balls to tell him he has no responsibility for tory policy? Speaker Weatherill & to a lesser extent Speaker Boothroyd would shut him up….wednesday should be interesting…
P0rn star Black Rod is in the house
Along with the Straw Man in some robes
The Rozzer, a doorkeep and Black Rod bringing things to the 21st century with some funky marching.
Well, if nothing else, this is a great spectacle. Well worth watching BBC Parliament right now if you’re not already.
If being a Tory means hating Bercow, then I’m no Tory.
If it’s only Tories that are concerned with the integrity of the House of Commons, we’ve got a real problem.
319- But if he is the sort who craves power and is indifferent to ideology, as is the case with many politicians and as evidence indicates he may be, then he may just as quickly turn pro-Tory as they are the ones holding the sword of Damocles over his head.
Bloody hell !!!!! …. there’s more sour grapes on here about Bercow than on a ruined winery harvest !!
I’ve more to gripe about than most - losses now pegged at just under £8K but my word the whinging amd moaning is a sight to behold.
Very undignified and ungracious.
Jill Pay has stolen the mace!
Booting Bercow to the Lords does mean there is no real chance of Cameron losing the by-election.
I suggest Mr. Bercow walks on egg-shells for the next couple of years.
Should care about Bercow’s election and the contempt MPs show for the public but in shock at seeing some actual truth about inner city realities on Dispatches. Getting some truth on the telly seems to be an unintended consequence of African immigration - can’t quite believe it. 40-50 years this sort of thing has been going on and always covered up. Stunned I am.
Did Brown manage a conversation with Cameron then?
Jack Straw has got Rinka’ skeleton under that Tricorn
Well so Parliament has moved on from ‘Gorbals Mick’ to ‘King Snout’. Well aint that just dandy? It would be such a shame if the independent audit of expenses turned up something nasty about ‘King Snout’.
Cheer up Torys on here. Take a lesson from JackW’s dignity, and in the meantime, spend some quality time with your new European friends
The third largest grouping is nine MEPs from the Czech Republic’s ODS, whose founder Vaclav Klaus has declared climate change a ‘global myth’.
The former Czech prime minister Mirek Topolánek, a leading light in the ODS, was recently pictured naked and in a state of arousal at the villa of Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194790/Cameron-accused-extremist-link-Tory-MEPs-join-Euro-group-anti-federalist-parties.html
325 But hating Bercow is something that unites all Conservatives.
Jill Pay gives me nightmares.
335 Good for him.
Feels wrong to see Straw sat in the House of Lords - even in a ceremonial position
Straw looks effing ridiculous.
328
Why should posters om PB.com be gracious about Bercow? Those who are attacking him stated from the start why they were opposed to his election. They are not MPs and have no need to be gracious about the election of someone they feel would be a disaster for Parliament.
340. He is effing ridiculous.
The main thing to take from all this is how massively relevant to the general public this ceremony is
Hey up, its the Strawman in his pirate hat again
328 What do we owe the man?
342 - The whole thing is effing ridiculous - I love it!
Seeing Straw there just struck me - is there any institution which Labour hasn’t ruined in the last decade?
336 Re Tory activists. Is that less true now than formerly. Surrey Heath stands out and Patrick Cormack came under serious pressure on his re-selection.
I’m rarely livid - I am today. What partisan sh1te this result is.
I sincerely hope that Cameron kills him off at the GE - this is an appalling travesty of hope over opportunism.
347 Nick Hawkins was a prat who deserved everything he got. But there other prats who coast along for years.
319. none of those things mean he’ll be a bad speaker. the expenses thing is the big question mark, but it does sound like he does plan to make reforms.
328. agree about the sour grapes. not sure why though (apart from personal dislike and partisan fury that the Cons did not get to choose this time).
to your average joe public he is simply a Con MP they haven’t heard of. on closer inspection of his record, he toes the Con line rather a lot - and does not justify his characterisation as an incredible rebel and a Lab party plant.
348. It’s New Labour, whiter than white, economically competent, tough on crime and the causes of crime, don’t mention the war! I don’t know why people are surprised by events, St. Frank told us that they were dumb enough to do this.
335
Vaclav Klaus has more integrity in his little Czech finger than the NUS Activists in the New Labour Cabinet have combined. Interesting that attack someone like Klaus, yet promote a careerist egotist like Bercow.
New Labour - Vere are you paperz.
Swinson is looking foxy this evening.
344 perhaps the acknowledgement that the election of Bercow to the speaker’s chair is a lesser travesty than Ahmadinejad’s re-election to the presidancy of Iran!
So now they should annouce Michael Martin to get a seat in the Lords - Lord Springburn?
283 Bercow’s Conservative label makes that somewhat harder for the Tories than running against Weatherill was for Labour.
I wonder what the state of Tony Blair’s private parts was while he was very publically lapping up Berlusconi’s hospitality?
“The House of cheats and nodding oil derricks got its perfect Speaker”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1194809/The-House-cheats-nodding-oil-derricks-got-perfect-Speaker.html
350 It’s those who know him best who like him least.
Lot of anti Bercow emotion on here. I suspect it got in the way of objective betting. I’d have liked Beith to be speaker but followed NickP’s tip on Bercow at 9-1 on WH.
I think the important question now is whether he is going to wear a wig or not?
335,
Instead, tim thinks, the Tories should sit in the EPP with characters like the Civil Platform. Interestingly, considering his outrage at anti-gay remarks by PiS, tim somehow overlooked those in the EPP-affiliated party:
“Deputy Speaker of the Polish Sejm Stefan Niesiolowski (Civil Platform-PO) was in a televised debate on the recent court decision to have a lesbian mother deprived of the custody to her 4 year old daughter.
During the debate, Niesiolowski among other things said:
”The court didn’t bow down to the pressure of the aggressive homosexual community, which came to make a scene as they usually do. I’m very happy about that. What is this, that they dared to have an impact on the verdict? It seems from what the court said the mother was a drug addict and molested the child…”. When he was corrected that she was not accused of molestation he went on “Ok, she didn’t molest but she was addicted to drugs. This community is so compulsive that they tried to influence a court decision. In this case the court clearly stated that the mother’s homosexuality did not play a role.”
“The child’s interest should be most important. It’s unacceptable for her to have two mothers or fathers. If they want to live together then fine. But get the hell away from children”.
Same-sex families are “abnormal”, according to Niesiolowski. “I refuse to agree to this and I’ll fight with the serious pathology which is a pair of lesbians with a child. Not too long ago homosexuals said ‘don’t persecute us’ and now they demand adoption and the right to raise children, and that will never be allowed”.
Niesiolowski stated that he would support a law which would take children away from homosexuals if they “bring in another homosexual to the family and their home becomes a place of permanent deprivation”.”
335,
Instead, tim thinks, the Tories should sit in the EPP with characters like the Civil Platform. Interestingly, considering his outrage at anti-gay remarks by PiS, tim somehow overlooked those in the EPP-affiliated party:
“Deputy Speaker of the Polish Sejm Stefan Niesiolowski (Civil Platform-PO) was in a televised debate on the recent court decision to have a lesb1an mother deprived of the custody to her 4 year old daughter.
During the debate, Niesiolowski among other things said:
”The court didn’t bow down to the pressure of the aggressive homosexual community, which came to make a scene as they usually do. I’m very happy about that. What is this, that they dared to have an impact on the verdict? It seems from what the court said the mother was a drug addict and molested the child…”. When he was corrected that she was not accused of molestation he went on “Ok, she didn’t molest but she was addicted to drugs. This community is so compulsive that they tried to influence a court decision. In this case the court clearly stated that the mother’s homosexuality did not play a role.”
“The child’s interest should be most important. It’s unacceptable for her to have two mothers or fathers. If they want to live together then fine. But get the hell away from children”.
Same-sex families are “abnormal”, according to Niesiolowski. “I refuse to agree to this and I’ll fight with the serious pathology which is a pair of lesb1ans with a child. Not too long ago homosexuals said ‘don’t persecute us’ and now they demand adoption and the right to raise children, and that will never be allowed”.
Niesiolowski stated that he would support a law which would take children away from homosexuals if they “bring in another homosexual to the family and their home becomes a place of permanent deprivation”.”
359. the electorate for this contest know him better than most and they voted for him.
349 Maybe I’ll take your word. In your view it still may not be enough but does my point hold that there are far greater instances of it now than could possibly have been dreamt of twenty or thirty years ago amongst CCPs.
While this move does seem a political winner for Labour in a variety of ways, there is one evident downside: this will certainly stick in the craw of Tory MP’s for a very long time (probably at least as long as Bercow sits in the Speaker’s chair, unless he turns pro-Tory again), and I would imagine the Tories will have their revenge in a variety of subtle ways once they’re running Westminster again. I don’t know how they would do this, but there will doubtless be ways for them to seek vengeance in an atmosphere of heightened partisanship.
358 - “he called Mr Bercow’s election ‘the worst sort of bloody political shenanigans”
Exactly why we are furious. Competely the wrong approach.
At least the Conservative party can point that the first Jewish Speaker was a Conservative MP.
Continues their significantly better record on minorities then Labour and the LibDems.
363 Those who weren’t in his party, for obvious reasons.
362 But that’s okay. He’s a European Federalist.
362 - Hey, if you want to leave the EPP go ahead, its your ball.
But perhaps contrasting the anger of Tories on here at Bercow, with their description of people like this, in the new group
,i>Artur Gorski, a PiS MP, described President Obama’s election last year as the “end of the civilisation of the white man”.
as “boringly mainstream”
may bring some sense of perspective
Just spoke to a relative who was gobsmacked by Bercow becoming speaker - “How could they with his expenses as they are!” added to which “surely his speakership will become the button hole in which a new parliament must be elected!”.
I was quite surprised by the venom and the anger!
369. in = on (Third line down!)
Did someone empty a trawler full of ermorno haddocks onto the tory benches?
344 Sean F. Perhaps you owe what you’d expect that others might owe to Cameron should he become Prime Minister - A fair wind and good wishes in a very important parliamentary and national role.
It’s in the nations interest that Speaker Bercow succeeds.
289 “thats generous if anyone thinks the Tories are very very stupid”
When Tim calls someone stupid he is absolutely cacking it and is on the verge of a mega strop. Therefore lets hope Cameron does dump bercow after the election as Tim’s foot stomping and toy throwing will be hilarious.
369,
Or how about this chap:
““Giulietto Chiesa has sat with the British Labour delegation in the Party of European Socialists since 2006. Over the past five years, his parliamentary activities have largely focussed around organising screenings in Parliamentary buildings of his 9/11 conspiracy theory film “Zero” which alleges that the Pentagon was actually hit by a missile and that the Twin Towers were really detonated by explosives placed inside the building. Turning to other international events, Chiesa stated his opinion that “Russia did precisely what had to be done” during last year’s Georgia crisis.”
Isn’t European parliamentary politics interesting?
372, enormo-haddocks*
Unlikely, I’ve yet to successful manipulate the necessary fishy genes.
373 - JackW, did you really lose £8,000 on your bet underestimating the level to which Labour could sink?
373. But Bercow is tainted with expenses, he is part of the problem not the solution.
What is worst is pious Norman Lamb voted for him!
Shows how crap his judgement on expenses is! Oh i forget he was not clean like he claimed so he would back a pig wouldnt he!
LD =
Is anyone willing to admit ever having lost more than JackW’s £8k on one political betting event?
374
Tim is on a mega strop from 6am thro 1am
I’m beside myself with anger - this is exactly what Parliament doesn’t need = another political ego driven by the Labour Party.
280 - compared to the angry tories on here today, I’m zen like.
Particularly as the danger to Cameron was an Etonian speaker.
Bercow has saved you.
379.
The BBC commented on someone losing £500 by backing Margret Beckitt. That must leave a bad taste in the mouth but £8K, I have simpathy - luckily i do not lose a bean on it! Not did i bet a bean!
373 - Much as I would have liked Bercow not to have won, I broadly agree with you. Bercow has 12 months to demonstrate an unambiguous neutrality in the chair between parties, and an essential component of that is ensuring that the Government is effectively held to account in the Commons.
If he succeeds, and that’s a big if bearing in mind past performance, then I would doubt he would be dethroned by an incoming Conservative administration, however large its majority,
373
The point being that no one does expect that from Labour. They will have not a good word to say about Cameron and will reveal themselves as typical Tim-clones.
It was in the nations interests that Bercow was not elected in the first place. Perhaps the MPs should have thought of that before they made this decision.
380 Not true most of the time he is just a deceitful and unpleasant smear merchant. He only strops when he knows he is cornered as in the case of new speaker election after the general election and the Tories putting up a different candidate to Bercow.
“Gordon Brown urged to call byelection in Norwich seat
Gordon Brown is under pressure to move the writ for the Norwich North byelection this week, or face the risk of losing the seat in the autumn, so reopening the arguments about his leadership.
He has delayed partly because he wants to hold the Norwich vote at the same time as the byelection in Glasgow North East, being held due to the retirement of the Speaker Michael Martin.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/22/gordon-brown-byelection-norwich
382 Is Bercow a hunting with hounds fan tim? If he is I might forgive him being goofy looking and a trougher.
Widdecombe failed the bloodlust test, or I was all in for her.
377 SimonStClare. Actually £10K pulled back with minor wins on other bets.
I completely overestimated the tribal vote for Beckett. It appears she was badly damaged by being to close to recent high office and frankly an utterly dismal speech. My heart sank faster than my wallet emptied.
373. Conservatives owe Bercow nothing. They didn’t support him. They didn’t want him as Speaker. They have had him forced upon them by a Labour Party that hasn’t made this decision in the national interest, but in their own party interests (so whats new) and if they don’t have confidence in him they have every right to have their views known.
Quinten Letts makes an interesting point in his article. When Bercow got up and openly mocked the Conservative member this afternoon, he was opening the door to personal mocking by the media on himself. He’ll have no cause to complain when the sketch writers declare open season on him….
Well, I disliked Bercow immensely during hustings and the speeches this afternoon.
But now he has been elected, I hope he is fair, impartial and does his job well.
391, quite, but given the PLP’s recent standard of picks for leadership roles I shan’t hold my breath.
Night all.
Anyone claiming to be pleased can only be seen as being on the side of the troughers and should be treated as such.
As far as I’m concerned anyone who voted for Bercow and, frankly, other candidates, is doing so as a V sign to the electorate.
At least one MP was honest enough to abstain.
382. It is the expenses problem that Bercow has and the fact a key part of his manefesto was increasing MPs pay!
I am livid at the further defenstration of parliaments reputation in the eyes of the people who bankroll it the - the people!
Far from redeem itself parliament led by Labour and supported by the Liberal Democrats have chosen to not just stick two fingers up at the electorate but enlarge the “trough” in the public eyes whilst defecating on public opinion!
Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) thinks it’s a laugh riot when Obama calls her a “charmer” and a “cutie,” but she’s outraged when a brigadier general dares to refer to her as “ma’am”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDjVrOqBPaQ
Is it hypocrisy? No, not really. Just an illustration of her monstrous ego and her contempt for the military. Here’s hoping this video will be played over and over and over in ads during her re-election bid next year.
189 - JackW, what you do with your money is entirely up to you; you will not hear a word of criticism from me on that score.
A begrudging respect though for your candour. You are a bigger man in my eyes today, even though your wallet may be smaller.
Dyed at 388: Bercow voted against the hunting ban, sadly. But nobody’s perfect.
Newsnight: Is Bercow the right Man to clean up the H of C?
So it begins - Gordon could well have commited the ultimimate error here in allowing what is a new symbol of troughing to go forth and sit in the chair.
Having Glasgow NE and Norwich N on the same day will divide Labour resources.
The Conservatives would make little more effort in Glasgow NE than the SNP will make in Norwich N.
The sensible thing for Labour to do would be to have Glasgow NE a couple of weeks after Norwich N so that a victory in Scotland would replace the narrative of defeat of a bad result (possibly 4th place) in England.
397 excellent, then there is hope.
Vermin beware, your number will soon be up (again)
Outraged Townies, all the fun of the fayre
It’s painful on here tonight. I’m no Bercow fan, but the level of anger among the Tories is really astonishing.
It’s disappointing that a more convinced reformer wasn’t elected, but - as Clegg said - the key now is to make sure that Bercow understands the radical change that needs to happen, and ensures that it is enacted.
Bad luck, JackW.
In my experience, the gamblers who are happiest to tell you about their losses are the best and most succesful ones.
I predict much use of the phrase “Boxer rebellion”.
396 SimonStClare. You’ve got to be big enough to take the hits.
Over the years I’ve had plenty to smile about on the markets. Last year was a bumper one and if this one is somewhat tighter then I’ll just have to restrict Mrs Jack W’s trips to Bond Street and taper down my antique collection of Lib Dem Man Traps …. you see there are sacrificies to be made !!
401 - Well as far as I’m concerned the tories should turn their anger on parliament as a whole, Bercow is not the issue, the manner of this whole tawdry affair is.
That’s the problem as too many are allowing too much leeway for their own party, and, for the record, I’m disgusted with a number of lib dems for their behaviour over expenses. My vote in Guildford is not a cast iron one, I voted Green in the euros and am prepared to do so again.
401 I’m no card carrying Tory and am still livid at tribal Labourites using the role of Speaker for partisan reasons.
I sincerely hope that Cameron is elected and brings this house of cards down.
Still spitting tacks.
302. You must lead a very sad, angry and embittered life malcolm.
I feel sorry for you.
comically bad performance on R5 just now with Louise Bagshaw(?) repeatedly mashing the self destruct button.
made Alex Hilton sound like a convincing media performer.
Its simple really
If Bercow’s as nulab as he has been so far over the next 3-6 months, he can get either de selected, or they can stand someone against him.
The first test for Bercow is on Wed when Cameron asks a direct question. Will Bercow make him answer it.
Bradby gave a good report today. Said this was a Labour practical joke that the public might not think was very funny.
407- Forgive him, he is a male southern Republican.
“353- … “I guess you are acting like a male southern Republican: when in trouble attack.”" Malcolm, June 3, 2009
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/06/03/marf-on-the-meltdown/
“In my experience, the gamblers who are happiest to tell you about their losses are the best and most succesful ones.
by shadsy June 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 pm “
Shadsy, you have lots of my money.
I now look forward to the day when I successfully get lots of it back…
Yes, Kelvin Mckensie just fingered bercow on expenses and capital gains tax. Labour portraying this as a victory will as usual be a pyric victory which will ultimatly cause a greater Labour defeat.
I talk to normal (real) folks not politicians or political hacks - expenses is as pungent as ever and i believe the people from what i have heard this evening think Bercow is bad!
Maybe it was me indoctrinating my grandmother but she hates the hobgoblin even calling him a socialist!
171. “171.The result confirms Frank Field’s well deserved reputation for honesty and insight.”
True. I could see them voting for a “business as usual” candidate and I could see them voting for Berkow to annoy the Tories if there hadn’t been Scamalot but I couldn’t believe they’d vote for a house-flipper and expenses maximiser while all this was going on. I’ve had to adjust my opinion even lower.
Now it’s happened though, if you force yourself to think like a temple money changer then I suppose it could make sense having a expenses-tainted nominal Tory in the telly studios defending MPs as it associates Scamalot with Tories.
Seems to me though the party with the largest number of MPs should be the one worried most about an anti-incumbency tidal wave heading their way. So in that sense it’s a good thing that ZNL MPs did a bad thing as it makes it more likely they’ll lose their seats at the general.
Now theres an interesting question… and this is meant as a serious question about protocol not a comment on Bercow in particular….
given that he can no longer effectively represent his constituents, would it be possible for a New Speaker to be deselected by his former party who would rather have an active party and constituency MP and so find himself out of Parliament and out of the Speaker’s job?
Ignoring this current situation there must be times when a constituency feels aggrieved that they have effectively lost the MP they ought so hard to get elected in the first place.
395. I thought you had a compelling case as I thought her reaction to the general was unnecessary and up herself, but Obama is clearly saying “cutie” in a jokey way there, rather than using it as a dismissive reference.
Sorry to hear of your losses, Jack W. After my best ever season on the football, I lost an absolute packet on Spanish football right at the end of May. It’s not easy to console your with the knowledge you’re still well up over time, but it’s a good way of looking at it. Best of luck recouping it all.
Kelvin McKenzie alleging that Bercow flipped homes and wouldn’t say whether he claimed captial gains because “he couldn’t remember”
Is this true?
417- If I tried to joke like that with my female colleagues in front of strangers, I doubt it would be well received. Actually, I wouldn’t even dream of trying it. Would you?
399 No it won’t. The chances of Labour holding Norwich North are less than 10% no matter what they throw at it. The narrative is key. Remember the Birmingham Hodge Hill/Leicester South score draw? That line worked then. If they hold them both and throw everything at Glasgow it may work again. Holding Glasgow later just allows the pressure to ramp up and increase the bandwagon effect potential from Norwich North.
422- to 419, of course. Oh where have you gone, edit feature?!?!
416 There is no reason why a constituency party cannot deselect the Speaker. Bercow has had to answer to his party already for his perceived lack of loyality.
It’s a lesson to all Chairman, as was the debacle over Andrew Mackay.
You can get too close to your MP. If it’s not right, put aside your personal feelings, have some b@lls and sort it.
“Burning ambition of John Bercow, who won in spite of his own party”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6558203.ece
327. Ideology and principle are very different things. I am very hostile to having ideologues in power, of any stripe.
I don’t know enough about Bercow to know if he has one, both or neither.
423 for 401.
I’ve always quite liked Bercow i have to say. Good luck to him.
Warmonger Obama plans illegal bombardment of the moon:
http://www.examiner.com/x-2912-Seattle-Exopolitics-Examiner~y2009m6d19-NASA-moon-bombing-violates-space-law–may-cause-conflict-with-lunar-extraterrestrial-civilizations
Will his case be referred to the International War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague?
420 Andy D. Thanks. A consoling single malt or several has dulled the pain !!
Onward and upward !!
Good Nite All ……..
Interesting that Crick thinks that Bercow will have to reach out to Cameron if he is to survive.
Have as feeling this will backfire on Labour.
Trouble is that it will taint Parliament too.
416. If precedent is followed then he will deselect himself in so far as he will resign his party membership. However on the basis of recent elections Buckingham Conservatives (and the local Labour Party and Lib Dems for that matter) will not put up a candidate aginst him.
However I think there are four other things to consider:
1) If Speaker Bercow is damaged by his expenses will an anti-expenses candidate stand against him? This could be damaging.
2) Will UKIP run a candidate? If so they might pick up a lot of Tory voters…
3) Could an independent Conservative run? Again they could get a lot of votes.
4) If any of the above happens might one or all of the big parties be tempted to field a candidate of there own.
In my opinion I think 1) and 3) are possible and 2) is likely.
I strongly feel that the hand of the, ‘Almighty’ was evident here. God has chosen Bercow to lead us out of the wilderness: oh yes! My prayers have been answered. In the same way as I asked God to, ‘kick the the s**t out of Nadine’s patio furniture’ and lo he did. I’m on a roll here.
422. Depends if I also considered them good friends. Part of it is also that she’s much older than him, and it would be the same dynamic of a woman stilling in her prime calling an older gentleman a “hunk” in a jokey way.
I still think Boxer was a bit up herself in the way she talked to that general, who was only trying to be polite in his way. But I don’t think this example is a case of double standards, and it’s all a bit of a storm in a teacup when we have two wars, the mother of recessions, and a potential revolution in Iran to deal with.
IMPEACH HIM!
It’s a measure of Bercow that he performed an unflattering impression of a Tory MP in his speech. Little snot.
‘Everyone’s crying out for change. Except MPs
The new Speaker was not chosen for his modernising credentials. This election shows the Commons at its worst’
Rachel Sylvester. The Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rachel_sylvester/article6557730.ece
425 - The Conservative Party cannot deselect Bercow as he is no longer a Conservative MP.
425. You don’t get it. Bercow is no longer a Conservative MP. He is now Mr. Speaker seeking re-election. How can the Tories “deselect” him?
The best they could do would be to run a Tory against him at the election, which they won’t do….
401 - quite. And from what I’ve seen of George Young’s speech it was all about restoring pride in the Commons by hushing up the expenses scandal. Bercow appears to worry Tories because he may be prepared to actually bust open the scams that are going on - and of which the Tories are the biggest troughers.
This may sound partisan but there has been NO rational explanation for the hatred of the vast majority of Tory posters towards him other than he’s married to a member of the Labour Party, has moderated his views over time, once went to an orange lodge meeting and is a bit arrogant.
Given Cameron has just negotiated a deal with the Ulster Unionists on similar terms - it’s entirely irrational and will have no traction to the world outside of frothing at the mouth Tories.
The Times Leader is quite reflective but also very astute. They ask will he be a ‘Triumph or a Disaster’.
‘There is, however, always a danger with Mr Bercow that no one will be more impressed with one of his orations than he himself. The House of Commons does not need a Speaker fonder of hearing his own voice than hearing the voice of members.
The other way in which Mr Bercow could overdo it is to persist in the poor relations he has with members of his own party. Tactfully, but urgently, Mr Bercow now needs to work to ensure that he acts as a Speaker for all the House rather than a practical joke played on David Cameron by Labour MPs.’
Somewhat off thread, I see Boris has lost another one, dear, dear, these ‘ol Etonians are not having a good day.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23710566-details/Third+Boris+Johnson+deputy+mayor+resigns/article.do
some sort of poll in the metro. Dont know what it is though!
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Tuesdays-Papers—Newspaper-Front-Pages-June-23-2009/Media-Gallery/200906415314849?lpos=UK_News_Left_Promo_Region_0&lid=GALLERY_15314849_Tuesdays_Papers_-_Newspaper_Front_Pages_June_23%2C_2009
Front pages
Two subway trains have collided in Washington DC. Reports of multiple fatalities and injuries.
here’s the story
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Labour_has_lost_half_its_support&in_article_id=690135&in_page_id=34
440. Given his flipping and failure to pay tax, he could easily find a well known “independent” running against him, which could interesting. Especially if between now and May 2010 the Telegraph digs up more dirt….
441
well I’m not a Tory and neither are a fair few of the posters above attacking Bercow. We don’t want him because he is exactly the wrong person for the job irrespective of his former party position.
He is one of the worst of the troughers and so will present completely the wrong face of Parliament to the public.
He is a lightweight and seems to have little idea about what is needd to really reform Parliament.
He comes over as being vain and egotistical and so is more concerned with his own position than that of Parliament.
Finally he shows a remarkably arrogance and lack of diplomacy by attacking some of the very people he is supposed to now be representing.
Metro Harris poll
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Labour_has_lost_half_its_support&in_article_id=690135&in_page_id=34
Just catching up with developments – how utterly ridiculous is it to have an MP sat on the woolsack, speaking on behalf of the Lords to the other MPs all stood most definitely behind the bar? Is there anything this government has touched that they haven’t utterly f*cked up?!
435- You would talk like that about a friendly colleague in front of a room of strangers? Not I, but to each his own.
And of course the country has big problems, like it always does (sometimes bigger than others). But if “macaca” can end one Senate career, there’s no reason why gratuitous ego-driven humiliation of a military leader couldn’t end another (with a bit of luck).
Also, Obama is a bit sexist, you have to admit that. He also called a reporter “sweetie” during his campaign. For a man with such supreme self-control to allow these zingers to pass his lips shows that it doesn’t bother him to say such things, uninvited.
444. WOW! Haven’t seen Harris do a British poll for many, many years! :O
Last Harris poll was infact 5/5/05. General election day.
By the way OGH,
given that the previous Speaker had something of a reputation for… how can I put this tactfully… being thin skinned about criticism from the blogosphere which resulted in a number of censorings and at least one thread being removed entirely when his position was first being criticised, do you anticipate any similar problems from the new Speaker?
Shouold we make the most of our chance to criicise him before debate is once again curtailed by writs from the Chair? (so to speak)
Con/Lab/LD 35/20/16
The proportions sound plausible though the others figure sounds ridiculously high.
I dont know why but when ever i see Bercow i think of foul breath? Why do equate Bercow with fowl breath?
Speaking as one of Bercow’s constituents I cannot see any way in which an official Conservative candidate would not romp home if Dave so decreed.
Who picked this ridiculous Newsnight panel?
Where does Harris stand on the Voodoo scale ? Are they BPC registered ?
441 You do sound partisan. You haven’t bothered to see what our genial host thinks of him.
In fact you don’t seem to have registered anything you don’t like the sound of.
Here goes again.
He IS a trougher. He can’t remember why he is so expensive or whether he paid CGT on his second home. He shouts reform but is very silent about his own affairs.
460. I think they are American? Similar to Gallup and NOP. They used to be regular pollsters during the 90’s when Labour had those vastly over-stated leads of 30-50%. In recent years they have been much less prolific, presumably as home grown pollsters like Populus and YouGov have come on the scene?
460
Harris where the main firm when I was a kid, I think they are legit.
Members (Company representatives)
* Ipsos MORI [Simon Atkinson] Telephone: 020-7347 3000
* Dods Polling [Matt Bricken] Telephone: 020-7091 7652
* Populus [Andrew Cooper] Telephone: 020-7253 9465
* TNS System 3 [Chris Eynon] 0131-656 4000
* Comres [Andrew Hawkins] Telephone: 020-7340 9634
* ORB [Gordon Heald] Telephone: 020-7430 0216
* Marketing Means [Anna-Marie Hill] 01364-654 485
* YouGov [Peter Kellner] Telephone: 020-7618 3010
* mruk research [Ivor Knox] Telephone: 0141-533 3332
* NOP [Nick Moon] Telephone: 020-7890 9830
* Harris Interactive [George H. Terhanian] 020-8263 5280
Daily Mail front page, says it all,
“New Speaker is a Tory hated by his party, tainted by expenses furore and already facing a plot to unseat him…”
Cross party consensus anyone?
Dan = Spanner!
LD are doomed - DOOMED!
Evening all - just made it home, after a long, long day!
So, Speaker Bercow: I’m disappointed, but I suspect he’ll actually take the responsibility very seriously, and do a good job both in the Chamber, and in daring to reform it more than makes MPs comfortable.
I don’t know for sure, but I’m prepared to give him a chance.
I lost a little on number of rounds (I though Beckett and Haselhurst would be more stubborn), a little backing Young at great odds and never laying off, and a little to PfP now that I’ve checked the actual bet we made (Cormack to round 2, not Widdicombe!). Credit to Jack W for his honesty - it’s why you are amongst our most admired punters on here, Jack, and a top gent to boot.
If the Conservatives try to challenge Bercow, they will look awful. Labour pulled off a real coup - no fighting, no bluster, not even a big majority will make that bind go away. Suck it up, and forget about it. Having *some* decent opposition in the chamber when Labour collapse and implode might even make you guys a better government. Either way, this fight is lost, so let it go.
I hope people enjoyed the Twitters - sadly couldn’t Twitter from the Gallery itself, but got most reports out in reasonable time. Will reply to many messages when I get a chance (if still relevant - I couldn’t get incoming on my phone, sadly).
Sympathies this evening with David Cameron - every time a Tory wins a big job, it is a Tory he hates! Winners definitely Bercow and Parmjit Dhanda, the latter of whom should be watched with great interest. A real talent, even if he is forced to take an electoral sabbatical for a term or two.
Good night all - and PfP I’ll send you a cheque tomorrow.
Morus
Really good:
“If John Bercow is the answer, remind me: what was the question?
Ann Treneman: Parliamentary Sketch”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6558285.ece
457- Perhaps Bercow’s trademark on your blogs could involve a cloud of green gas originating from the oral cavity rather than from the other cavity.
They were well within the margin for error of the general election;
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/historical-polls/voting-intention-2001-2005
468.
457
Hedging your bets there Martin Foul/Fowl, unless you think that Bercow’s breath smells like chicken sh*t!
“Parmjit Dhanda, the latter of whom should be watched with great interest. A real talent, even if he is forced to take an electoral sabbatical for a term or two.”
He seems like someone who could emerge as a new broom and help labour regroup, I thought he was pretty impressive. Did he come out of the expenses scandal okay?
Poll Alert,
An exclusive Metro/Harris poll of 2,081 people reveals that 52 per cent of those who voted Labour in 2005
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Labour_has_lost_half_its_support&in_article_id=690135&in_page_id=34
467. The sketch are sharpening their pencils already….
473- They put Labour at 17%?!?! Is that a credible poll? It’s published in the worthless Metro, so I doubt it…
Just to show the, ‘little people’ stick together.
22/06/09
Alan Duncan MP, Shadow Leader of the House of Commons
Sky News
Mr Duncan played down suggestions John Bercow would be a divisive as House of Commons speaker, urging his colleagues to “behave well” towards Mr Bercow.
“I actually think John Bercow has a capacity to bind this House,” he said, telling his party colleagues: “We’re going to work with this guy we want the House of Commons to behave well. We don’t want to be critical and start undermining”.
He added: “What we have to do is make this work”
Hmmm wonder if he means it, nah! ‘course he don’t.
there seems to be two polls in the paper - one by Urban Life and the other by Harris.
The details about ‘Urban Life’ voodoo?
Expenses scandal hits Labour hard
Monday, June 22, 2009
Labour has been battered by the expenses scandal as support with Metro readers fell to its lowest ever point in a separate Urban Life survey. Only 13 per cent of readers said they would vote for the party – down from 18 per cent in March.
Support for David Cameron’s Conservatives increased by one per cent over the same period to 33 per cent.
The Liberal Democrats have beaten Labour into third position with 16 per cent of readers saying they would vote for them if the general election was held tomorrow – up from 15 per cent.
The anger about MPs’ expense claims also appears to have hardened the resolve of readers with the number of undecided voters falling from 25 per cent to 19 per cent.
The Greens pick up nine per cent, UKIP four per cent, Scottish National Party two per cent, BNP unchanged at one per cent and independent and other minority parties at three per cent.
The figures compare with the Metro/Harris poll, which looks at the nation as a whole, having 30 per cent voting Tory, Labour on 17 per cent and the Liberal Democrats getting 14 per cent.
Only one in five Metro readers said Gordon Brown was the best man to lead the country – while half think he should stand down now.
Foreign secretary David Miliband is readers’ favourite to replace him, with 17 per cent wanting him to become prime minister until a general election.
Surprisingly, 14 per cent of readers said former prime minister Tony Blair should be reinstated. However, deputy Labour leader Harriet Harman was the choice of just four per cent.
More people – six per cent – wanted Peter Mandelson in the top job. Metro polled 1,800 readers on June 16 and 17.’
475. MORI had Labour at 18% the other week.
475 - That isn’t the headline figures (that includes the “don’t knows”),
The headline figures are the Tories on 35 per cent, Labour 20 per cent, the Lib Dems 16 per cent and other parties 29 per cent.
Still as you say the Metro is a bit of a worthless rag and no further info. Just posting what I saw on the front pages.
452. I don’t think Boxer showing herself to have a bit of a chip on her shoulder about her title is in the same league as a potential presidential candidate using a racial slur to an Asian man, and the fact that you do is worrying. The word “humiliation” is also way out of context, it was a mild blip in conversation and the general made her look petty by not reacting to it.
As for Obama, I haven’t seen enough to see whether he’s sexist or not. I did feel the “sweetie” remark was patronising and dismissive to a female reporter. However, I think it comes from the fact he’s a bit egocentric in believing he can charm anyone. A string of similar incidents might cause me to change my mind.
Bercow is a self serving careerist. If he’s smart, he will see that he now has to tack towards the opposition parties and against the Government in order to keep his place. I suspect he is smart enough for that. If he isn’t, he won’t be in post after the election.
It’s win-win for the Tories.
479 (correction) - Meant to say “don’t knows” and “won’t vote”.
OK Rod. I get it.
The point is that if they were investigationg his expenses or the Scrutiny Panel find something, he will not be exempt.
Cameron/the party could finish him. And they could do so quite subtly, by passing an ambigous verdict on him or suggesting he should pay over some serious cash under their ‘rules’ because of the avoidance of CGT.
Morus, I think you declare victory for a Labour coup too soon.
Labour hopefulls for Glasgow North East.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2515920.0.Labour_candidates_queue_up_to_fight_for_city_seat.php
466 To whom Morus? MacKenzie was right the public don’t care who the speaker is or how or why they come in or out. To your philosophical nature it no doubt would not look good if Bercow was toppled but I doubt the readers of the Sun would care one jot. Bottom line if enough Tory MP’s felt like it the political cost in the short term would be minimal particularly if they’d just won a big victory. Remember how Blair could do almost anything without any questions in his first few years. Crick is right Bercow has sone serious bridge building to do to cement his position Bercow is smart enough to know that.
The Telegraph.
‘It is hardly surprising that so many Conservatives felt insulted by Mr Bercow’s victory, for his bold strategy entailed being astonishingly rude to his own party.
He started his speech by giving us the response of a senior Tory whom he had asked for support: “You’re not just too young, you’re far too young, given that in my judgment the Speaker ought to be virtually senile.”
It sounded very much as if Mr Bercow was imitating the orotund tones of Sir Peter Tapsell (C, Louth and Horncastle), who first entered the House 50 years ago but Sir Peter smiled and shook his head.
We were given a short history lesson by Mr Bercow, including a bit of Sir Thomas More, the only MP to be canonised, but while we enjoyed the history, we could not help wishing Mr Bercow had refrained from mocking the more historical members of the present House.
Mr Bercow’s slow enunciation created the unfortunate impression that he considered his audience, or part of it, to be half-witted.’
Letts.
‘Impossible! They voted for someone worse than Gorbals Mick’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1194809/The-House-cheats-nodding-oil-derricks-got-perfect-Speaker.html
-81 badman “he (Bercow) will see that he now has to tack towards the opposition parties”
The speaker should be impartial, unbiased, detached and unprejudiced. No tacking required, he’s not in a regatta!
486 - Whilst I have not passed comment on Bercow as a person or politician (barring expenses obviously as that is the background to this affair) it’s strange that they have elected someone who isn’t a very good speaker, slow, ponderous and prone to going down linguistic dead ends.
I would have thought that the speaker had to be, well, a good speaker. The job title should be a bit of a clue.
484. Dont the rules say that this should be an anti male shortlist?
Parmjit Dhanda is someone with whom I have worked and I have a lot of time for him even though we are in different parties. He is an impressive young politician. As others say his future may not be in Gloucester
“Ed Balls: Labour ‘would aim to increase spending on public services’
(…)Mr Balls, who was close to becoming Chancellor until Alistair Darling dug in his heels in the recent reshuffle, said that he had never “agitated” for a change. He had been preparing for the the schools White Paper for 18 months and would have been hugely frustrated not to introduce it. He admitted he did not know what was going to happen, but he had never pressed to move.
“The moment you stop wanting to do the job you are doing and start thinking about the future or next stage is the point when you start to lose a grip with reality. Prime Ministers decide whom they want in positions. I love my job.” ”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6558064.ece
491 He was poor on Newsnight but it is early days.
I don’t like the idea he put himself up for Speaker to ‘raise his profile’. I hope he did it for higher motives than that.
443. Boris got to Eton because he was exceptionally intelligent and won a prized scholarship.
490
Maybe Glasgow NE is an All Male Shortlist, to balance the All Woman Shortlists. Balance, leftie style, (don’t mind the electorate).
Have you seen tonight’s Harris opinion poll:
http://richardwillisuk.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/new-harris-poll-%e2%80%93-labour-has-lost-half-of-its-2005-support
SKY: Bercow has had to pay 6 grand back already for non payment of CGT on his second home.
Unbelievable.
Reformer my bottom.
A bit of an over-reaction by some of my fellow Tories to Bercow’s election, I think.
OK, he’s an unattractive character, wanted the job far too much, and is disliked by many in the Conservative Party; but given that previously we had M. Martin as Speaker, it’s hard to portray this as a disaster for democracy or for the Conservative Party. Bercow can hardly be a worse or a more partisan Speaker than Martin, can he? And if he does behave in an unacceptable way, he can be chucked in a few months’ time - a last resort, of course, but one which will be available if necessary.
In the overall scheme of things, therefore, not a big issue.
More interesting perhaps is the immediate media narrative. Whilst less hostile to Labour than it would have been if Beckett had been chosen, nonetheless there does seem to be quite a strong message of ‘Labour dirty tricks’, whether justified or not. Something of an own-goal, therefore.
486. I was about the only person on here to pick up on what Bercow did in mocking the Tory gradee this afternoon. I think Bercows speech will haunt him for a long time to come.
Bercow cgt story is old news but nulab still put him in, crooks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5370323/MPs-expenses-John-Bercow-to-repay-6500-capital-gains-tax.html
Jack W hope your centenarian ticker holds up under such a shock.
498. As an ‘over-reating tory’ [I am not lacking in self awareness even if I am in moderation] I don’t think this will play well for Labour. That isn’t the point.
He needed to be much much better than Martin for the sake of Parliament. I am sick of canvassing people who are sick of Parliament or flirting with voting BNP.
Ironically, the manner of his election means he is on probation from day one, but he/she should have started off with a clean slate.
They could have had someone like Field.
489. Well they never cared about a Speaker being able to speak when they elected Martin, did they?
Even though he’s not a particularly good Speaker, I think Bercow will be a huge step up on Michael Martin as far as being able to communicate goes, so that is one good thing about him.
*********News Flash**********
Brown and Bercow have Blown it!
http://tinyurl.com/ckmmel
Mark Littlewood asks an intriguing question.
“Is Bercow’s Buckingham now a marginal seat?”
http://tinyurl.com/mttz3l
To which I would add that maybe this is where an Esther Rantzen type of candidate should stand.
Not on topic at all, but saves the Bercow bashing!
Does anyone have some tennis betting tips, would be nice if anyone did, as it is the time of Wimbledon and I am sure money is to be made on the unknowns in the first few rounds?
x
The Sun Says:
‘Time for trust
IT was the Tories’ turn as Commons Speaker and it was Tory MP John Bercow who won the prize.
But this result was forced upon the Opposition by Labour in an act of revenge for Speaker Michael Martin’s forced resignation.
Mr Bercow is deeply unpopular within his own ranks. His controversial election is a gamble at a moment of crisis in our democracy.
He must swiftly prove he is entitled to the trust and loyalty of ALL parties.
Or risk being the second Speaker in three centuries to get the boot.’
498. Honestly, up until his speecj this afternoon I was indifferant to Bercow and couldn’t really understand what all the fuss was about. I wouldn’t have minded Speaker Bercow, though he wasn’t nearly my first choice.
However, with his speech it suddenly became clear to me what an odious creep he is. I just don’t think this man can be trusted. Disaster awaits us….
“Steve Richards: Here’s how to embolden our MPs”
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/steve-richards/steve-richards-heres-how-to-embolden-our-mps-1714162.html
72.”Labour win.”
Yep.
“DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Only a proper vote can end this farce
They had ten candidates to choose from - and with their unerring instinct for self-destruction, they chose the most divisive of the lot.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1194848/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Only-proper-vote-end-farce.html
498. MPs electing a major trougher to represent them while right in the middle of the expenses scandal will greatly strengthen the anti-politician wave.
This one is for everyone here
“Gordon Brown: From now on we serve one master - The British people”
By Gordon Brown himself
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194860/Gordon-Brown-From-serve-master–The-British-people.html
480- The contemptuous way in which Boxer treated the brigadier general is very revealing of her attitude toward the military in general, and I worry that you don’t take that seriously. I find that much more troubling than Sen. Allen saying “macaca” or Obama talking about “typical white people,” both of which comments take on outsized proportions in our race-obsessed culture.
488 John Bercow decided in 2005 that this was likely to be Michael Martin’s last Parliament (as indeed MM himself should have realised and acted on, so obviating the need for his forced departure) and there would be a tide towards a Tory Speaker. He has campaigned for the job, seeking support from the majority party and being quite ruthless in this, not caring that he was burning bridges with his own.
What he hasn’t allowed for is that the House split sufficiently to force Martin to go, and having once demonstrated its willingness to remove a Speaker will do again if that Speaker is seen as partial and lacking support on one set of benches. To an extent his campaign has in fact ensured this.
He will now have to start his campaign to retain the post of Speaker after the next election. That means trying to get the support and confidence of those benches he has so recently p****d off. The Conservative benches will be looking for any “bias”, and will likely perceive it even if well intentioned and fair but decisions go against Cameron.
It seems to me unlikely that he will gain the confidence and support from both sides that will make him a respected or loved Speaker. I would like to be surprised but fear that it will not be centuries before the next Speaker is forced to go prematurely.
I think that the post has now become overtly political. in the gift (as it always was but not so blatantly) of the majority party and its likely that Speakership will change with changes of Government and rather than the Speaker retaining the mantle of a non-partisan champion of Parliament, this election, following that of Michael Martin, has changed forever the role of Speaker.
Good though that it is that we get another “first”, the first Jew to be Speaker, 151 years after Lionel de Rothschild was able to take his seat, to follow the first RC Speaker, who followed the first woman Speaker. Maybe Dhanda shouldn’t give up hope, next time the first ethnic minority Speaker?
506.We should maybe try and persuade HenryG to do an article on Wimbledon, and persuade hip to post his tips on here again for this special tournament?
513. So how about the promoised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty then Gord? No, thought not! So much for serving the British people.
498. Richard - correct. The big losers in this are as usual, Labour. They look even more petty and pathetic than before, reduced to using their majority to engineer a childish prank rather than try to rescue parliament’s reputation.
As for the Lib Dems…once again the master snaps his fingers and they come running.
“From now on we serve one master - The British people”
So what has Brown been doing up till now, shouldn’t he have been doing that from the outset?
515.Good post Ted. Agree with your analysis.
Have to say that I am disappointed bn the result. Truly felt that Haselhurst was the best of the candidates and that of the final two, Young would have been preferable as a candidate to return a sense of comity to the House. I’m afraid to say that I think this was a partisan calculation on the part of Labour MPs to install someone they felt was least acceptable to the Conservatives, however much Nick Palmer may deny it.
However, what is done is done. Bercow now has a chance over the next ten months to prove all his detractors wrong, and I hope for the good of the institution of the House of Commons and the country that he does exactly that.
510- Labour have the majority, so they won. No surprise there. Still, looking back, you have to give the last Tory government a lot of credit for picking Boothroyd who was, by all accounts, not picked as the culmination of a political scheme but rather because she was a positive force in parliament.
516-I agree, but the best value to be had is at the start of the tournament! So we need one soon lol. Personally Safin to win tommorow me looks the pick of the odds on betfair at around 1.45/1
506. The only tennis tip I have is that you need a strong wrist for a good drop volley because you have to absorb a lot of the energy from the oponents shot. You play it by swivelling the racket just as the ball hits it - an action not unlike turning a giant key. Sorry that won’t win you any money, but it is a great shot if you can master it as it invariably wins you the point.
515. I can see things playing out in several ways;
1. Bercow remains in post. For this to happen he has really got to start sucking up to the Tories. Not a healthy situation at all, and Labour will quickly feel betrayed that “their man” is turning on them. I actually think this is the most likely scenario. Bercow really is enough of a creep to switch to favouring the Tories now he has got what he wanted from Labour. If Speaker Bercow starts favouring the Conservative government, Labour in opposition may rue the day they ever made this particular deal with this particular devil.
2. A high profile anti sleaze independent like Martin Bell or Esther Rantzen stands against him. I would actually rate the possibility of this happening quite highly, actually. Bercow has a LOT of explaining to do on his expense’s and if he can’t come up with satisfactory answers he could be wide open to an independent challange.
3. Bercow continues to act as a Labour stooge and makes it through to the next election. I fear in this situation he WOULD actually be forced out. Such is the anger and resentment at whats happened. Should Bercow be forced out early in the next Parliament, hopefully someone completely independent like Frank Field would stand a much better chance of getting through. That would be the best outcome for the House. Because its only by a truely independent MP getting through that the impartiality of Speaker can be restored. However, the temptation for the Conservative majority would be to exact revenge on Labour by electing a Tory from their own benches who Labour hates with a passion and then gloating about it. And the whole thing would begin again….
522 - Sorry to be pedantic but it wasn’t the Tory Government that picked Betty Boothroyd but that sufficient (over 50) Conservative MPs voted for her and not for another Conservative who was her opponent. Where that Government does indeed deserve credit, unlike on this occasion, was that they recognized that the vote was purely a House of Commons matter, and didn’t set the whips to try and ‘manage’ the outcome.
Indeed, Boothroyd’s Tory proposer, the late and much lamented John Biffen, had been arguably the best Leader of the House for a generation
522.S&S’s, you forgot that she ever belonged to any particular party, and that showed you how good she was in the Speaker’s Chair. She had the respect of the whole House, and that is how it should be. Just wish she had been around the last few years, we could of done with someone of her quality. Bercow’s election has been tainted with partisan Labour politiking, and I was really disappointed at the result.
The PLP were certainly were not interested in someone who could reach across the HoC’s, its got a spiteful feel to it, one last fingers up to the Conservative benches. Its at times like this you can understand why Brown was given a coranation.
‘Reasons Why Tom Bradby Must Be Sacked’, no. 794 -
His report on the Evening News tonight was an absolute disgrace. He effectively expressed a preference for Sir George Young. ITN might as well drop the pretence and change Bradby’s title to ‘Chief Tory Propaganda Correspondent’.
Meanwhile, Quentin Letts must be delighted - he has yet another Speaker to loathe, and this time a fellow posh-boy. At least Letts is an equality of opportunities source of bile.
522.S&S’s, you forgot that she ever belonged to any particular party, and that showed you how good she was in the Speaker’s Chair. She had the respect of the whole HoC’s, and that is how it should be. Just wish she had been around the last few years, we could of done with someone of her qual1ty. Bercow’s election has been marked by partisan Labour politiking, and I was really disappointed at the result.
The PLP were certainly were not interested in someone who could reach across the HoC’s, one last fingers up to the Conservative benches.
Mike, my original post disappeared into the ether. I left if a few moments, and it still had not appeared, so I reposted it. Now both are in moderation, could you delete one. Thanks.
527. My recollection is that the Tory leadership were pushing Peter Brooke in 1992 in much the same way that the Labour hierarchy were pushing Beckett this time.
529. That was a response to 526.
ABC News reveals how the so-called stimulus, amounting to nearly $800 billion, is being spent predominantly in the states of key congressmen rather than distributed in the manner best designed to encourage the economy:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7895029&page=2
So not only is the money being injected into the economy at a snail’s pace, but it is being doled out in traditional pork-barrel style, with the biggest congressional pigs at the trough bringing home the most bacon. This may also help to explain why a stimulus bill that the administration guaranteed would keep unemployment under 8% has already spectacularly failed to do that, now standing at nearly 10%.
529 - It would be interesting to see the newspaper stories at that time. The Tories had an overall majority of 20; Boothroyd won by 134 votes. So, I suspect any lobbying for Peter Brooke was pretty perfunctory if at all.
PS And, of course, it was an open vote unlike today’s.
527 As Quentin says himself John Bercow’s making fun of Sir Peter Tapsell gives Mr Letts free rein.
525 I think it is a near certainty that the election of a Speaker at start of next Parliament will be disputed. There will be 15 MPs at least who will propose someone to stand against Bercow. The assumption Mr Bercow made, that in winning he then gets to decide that he will remain Speaker until he chooses to step down towards the end of the Parliament following next is, I fear, mistaken. A Speaker is elected only for the term of one Parliament, it is only precedence that says he/she is re-elected without challenge.
He claims the mantle of “moderniser” and with that comes the overthrow of precedence. Precedence protected the Speaker from challenge, I think that has gone.
532. If my mental arithmetic is right, that probably means about 75 out of 336 Tory MPs voted for Boothroyd. If you look at it that way, there could have been plenty of lobbying for Brooke (as I believe there was). The problem for Brooke was the same as for Beckett this time - he had only just stepped down as a minister, and he was seen very much as the government’s man. The backbenchers wanted a champion - as indeed they did today, and in 1983 when Weatherill was elected.
535- Will we be receiving such tallies for this vote (i.e., how many of each party voted for the candidates?). That would be very interesting.
I would hope not, S&S. It was a secret ballot, wasn’t it?
536. No we won’t (because it’s a secret ballot this time) but there was a suggestion on Newsnight that Bercow got 30 Tory votes, which if true would be a good deal more than expected.
515 Ted. “Good though that it is that we get another “first”, the first Jew to be Speaker …”
A landmark indeed. In fact it’s even better than that. In post after post up-thread, Bercow got hammered by various posters. They were so busy criticising the new Speaker that they forgot that he WAS Jewish. The fact that he is Jewish only got mentioned in a spirit of “Ah! Well, at least some good comes out of it”.
This is exactly as it should be, but so seldom is. Race, Religion, Gender, Sexual Preference, Age, Looks - All irrelevant when judging someone’s fitness for the job.
MP’s correctly overlooked all these non-factors in choosing Bercow. Unfortunately, they also overlooked the fact that he is totally unsuited to the job because of he lacks gravitas, charm, knowledge and authority.
515. “I think that the post has now become overtly political”
That’s my fear also. And if the Speaker becomes overtly pro-government then the executive will be further strengthened at the expense of the legislature
The potential problem with scenario 3 is that Field said he would not stand if he could not command a reasonable level of support in his own party; that is what made him right for the job.
Unfortunately, the rotting corpse of Labour is incapable of mustering enough honourable flesh to support any such person. If they thought it was their best chance, they might.
Self interest again.
541 was to GIN.
539 Agreed - his religion wasn’t an issue nor highlighted, except for one article by Dominic Lawson, which was odd in that it suggested a degree of anti-Semitism in the criticism (of which I saw/heard none) then Mr Lawson himself castigated Bercow for being too much of an Alan Sugar/Michael Winner “jewish type” (perhaps Mr Lawson was short of an article to write?).
Until I read that article I hadn’t realised nor thought to find out Mr Bercow’s religion. It doesn’t matter, just as Michael Martin being the first Catholic Speaker since the Reformation didn’t matter in his fitness for the role.
466.”“Parmjit Dhanda, the latter of whom should be watched with great interest. A real talent, even if he is forced to take an electoral sabbatical for a term or two.””
I agree, have been really impressed by him. Oh, and he is gorgeous as well.
527 Bradby had a go at Labour but he didn’t back Young. Indeed he said that Bercow may turn out to be a good speaker but his argument was similar to ukpaul’s; the problem was ‘how’ not ‘who’. He claimed it was a Labour wheeze. It was.
545. You’re right, he didn’t back Young overtly but by laying into Bercow’s supporters so directly (when the vote had still to take place) it was pretty clear what the message was. Bradby is an absolutely shocking political editor. If you think the post of Speaker has had its political neutrality compromised, that is as nothing compared to what’s happened to the post of ITN political editor.
Incidentally, Sally, I thought it was very interesting that arch Tory reformer (and Michael Martin’s nemesis) Douglas Carswell revealed he voted for Bercow in the second and third ballots. Evidently he doesn’t buy the line that Bercow’s candidacy was just a Labour wheeze.
544. I disagree with you there. I say that not to pick a fight, but because it so rarely happens I thought it should be noted.
In future you can be the Blue Harpie who fancies Dhanda and I will be the one who doesn’t. Though I think we both like Tom ‘the floppy haired posh one’.
546 I don’t see how you can object when everything he said about Bercow’s supporters was true. Bearing in mind Bercow went after support on that very basis I don’t see how he can object.
Off to bed but one last thought.
Speaker Bercow could do himself a lot of good if he tells off Gordon Brown for the disrespectful way he treats the House by bringing his paperwork with him to the Front Bench and spending debates working on those rather than actually attending to the debate.
“545.527 Bradby had a go at Labour but he didn’t back Young. Indeed he said that Bercow may turn out to be a good speaker but his argument was similar to ukpaul’s; the problem was ‘how’ not ‘who’. He claimed it was a Labour wheeze. It was.”
Just for the record I am not Tom Bradby! He is paid to reflect the views of the people and it sounds as though he has done that. We have just seen parliament humiliated for weeks on end. The focus Bradby puts is on if they have learned, and I don’t think many people apart from partisans believe that they have.
The sight of MPs self congratulation in the house earlier this evening was stomach churning and I’m not surprised it turned much of the lobby off too.
547.”Though I think we both like Tom ‘the floppy haired posh one’”
SallyC, absolutely, and don’t forget wee Niall on Sky, a breath of fresh air in that political reporting team.
Saw Dhanda on Newsnight, and thought him very cute, but then I think that Jon Cruddas has the sexiest voice in the HoC’s. Labour have not got a lot going for them, but they have those two positives.
548. Sally, I’m afraid I do object to blatant bias on points of political controversy, and Bradby displays it again and again and again. He could quite easily just have said “if Bercow is elected, Tories will feel…” or “there is anger and concern among the Tories that…” Instead, he clearly felt we needed the benefit of his own opinions on the matter - ie. “is this what is needed to restore public confidence in parliament? I don’t think so.”
How anyone can dispute that a broadcast journalist who airs such a view has breached his duty to be neutral is beyond me.
546. Carswell prob thinks Berkow’s genuinely interested in proper reforms and not just cosmetic and anti-traditional gimmicks to try and distract the public from MPs thieving. He’ll be disappointed methinks.
Schools ‘need business managers’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8113453.stm
Here comes another layer of bureaucracy and public sector jobs for little / no benefit.
According to the survey, the best examples was a saving of £70k a year. Now, lets say a decent manager gets £40k a year (I bet they probably got more than that, but lets just say) + NI + Pension + costs of running another office + equipment. Change of of £70k, you will be
lucky!
Change of of £70k, you will be lucky!
->
Change out of £70k, you will be lucky!
Mike. Just to let you know that http://politicalbetting.com/ still sends you to the April 25th page. It means you are getting no new users and that is a shame as its a great site!
“Is this now a generational thing?”
Mike, no, it was more partisan than a generational thing.
Nite all.
554 - Decent manager for 40K? What planet are you on, a decent manager will want 70K minimum.
554 (cont) And what are we paying the crazy amounts for Head Teachers these days? I thought they got a massive rise over the past 10 years, because they were going to be trained to run schools efficiency etc, and effectively run the “business”, not employ yet another person to do it for them.
It’s all horseplay.
When can we have an election?
558 - Well exactly, I was picking a figure that was a lot less than that, but highlighting that even if you did it “on the cheap” by the time you add in all the extra costs it is £70k+.
556-Not for me. It works just fine.
552. All commentators pass on opinion to some extent. It is bound to be a judgement call and to some extent its in the judgment of the listener. You seem to think he said more than I did. I would have cheered him on, hearing what you heard, but I didn’t.
But how you can complain at him when compared with the likes of Boulton and Robinson is beyond me.
Red,
Re Carswell. Again I think you read too much into it. He was quite cool about Bercow on Newsnight. He could easily have thought he was the best of a bad lot.
So….
I was right about the media reaction if Bercow (or Beckett) won. Well done Gord.
Bercow is in but very much on probation. If he continues in a blatantly anti-Tory manner then Dave will be perfectly entitled to run a Tory candidate against him at the GE. Bercow is either smart enough to know that or will simply have been told to his face that if he wants to keep the job then he will have to do it well - including the way he keeps Brown honest at PMQs.
Overall then, despite my initially negative reaction, I suspect that Bercow will either be a reasonably good Speaker for quite a long time - or a bad one for a short time. It’ll probably be the former.
Either way Labour are toast at the GE and their historic mission to ruin the country is in its final act.
If every seat counts after the next GE, then the Conservatives may be reluctant to push Bercow out as he could remain an MP and join Labour - so his seat would then amount to a Labour gain.
I know Speakers always leave the Commons after they step down but if Bercow was deposed post GE I could imagine him thinking he had every right to stay.
563. Sally, I find Robinson intensely irritating (and he’s a former Tory of course) but he would never have done what Bradby did - state that in HIS opinion the fact that Labour MPs were about to elect Bercow was a bad thing. That’s not me ‘reading’ something into his words that wasn’t there - the quote I gave earlier is pretty close to being word for word what he said. I don’t really watch Sky, but as far as the BBC and ITN are concerned that kind of ‘op/ed’ style commentary from a political editor is a new departure, and not one that anybody should take pride in. There were perhaps early signs of it with Andrew Marr, for instance his declaration on the day that Baghdad fell that Blair looked a ‘bigger man’, but Bradby just keeps doing it again and again.
564. Carswell certainly was lukewarm about Bercow, but the fact he preferred him to Sir George Young in spite of the ‘Labour plot’ was nevertheless instructive.