Will McCain look at Obama tonight?
October 7th, 2008
Is there anything the 72 year old can do to get back into the race?
All eyes in the American presidential election will be on Nashville tonight where John McCain and Barack Obama take part in the second presidential debate. After this there will only be one event left.
After the first encounter between the two senators most pundits scored it at about even. That, however, was not the verdict of the public and in the voting intention polls that have followed Obama has built up a significant lead that’s starting to look unassailable. McCain won’t have many more chances - he needs to do something tonight.
One of his problems from last time was that he simply did not deign to look at his Democratic opponent - something that seems to have gone down like a lead balloon. Will he have learned his lesson? Will he at least appear to be civil?
It is often these matters rather than who wins the argument that sets the seal on public opinion.
Live White House race getting prices.
Mike Smithson
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There is nothing much McCain can do really!
476 You are now debating like a child…yeah you so good but look at your silly haircut.
Coldstone, I engaged with you a while but now i see there is no point.
For the conservatives to lose in 97 was not as bad as Labour losing for 18years.
Further, I understand blair, won with fewer votes in 97 than Major won with the previous election. So much for the landslide.
You suffer from what can only describe as a political mental illness. You bravado comes with a 20-30% poll rating, massive debt and a massive recession approaching WITH MASSIVE SOCIAL PROBLEMS TO COME.
oops sorry didnt mean to capitalise
I see all the Tory Bloggers have gone cold on McCain…oh dear
Obama at 2009 Labour conference…Oh how delicious
Last thread, 204. David Herdson: The ticker on the Beeb website is saying that the fall in the Dow over the last five days [working days, presumably] is the largest ever. That’s pretty remarkable if so - more than anything in 1929 or 1987. I am assuming they mean percentage falls. If it’s points then it’s obviously a lot less surprising.
Ouch. The closest the FTSE has got recently by my data was the five days ended 17th September (-453.8, 9th worst in points terms, 20th worst in % terms).
Then again, no change tomorrow would be -354.4, and if the 4400 figure I saw mentioned in the last thread is realised, that’ll make it the third worst five-day run in FTSE history (points terms, 10th in % terms).
There’s still some way to go to match the five days ended 20th October 1987 (-23.3%) and the five days ended 21st January 2008 (-637.5).
3 - I’m sure President Obama will be really desperate to rush across the Atlantic to attend the eve-of-disaster fratricidal circus that will be the Labour Conference 2009.
3- why would gordon brown invite a ‘novice’ to the labour conference?
3 - Interesting to see the word ‘delicious’ in your statement. You wouldn’t be related to f@cking delicious who plaqued Guido’s in the past by any chance?
3: ‘Obama at 2009 Labour conference…Oh how delicious’
As sitting US presidents don’t tend to address the political conferences of foreign parties I take it you think Obama is going to lose. Or don’t you really know what you’re talking about?
“Obama at 2009 Labour conference…Oh how delicious”
What on earth makes you think Obama will endorse Labour? He seems pretty chummy with Cameron.
8 - Methinks the latter!
3. You can run but you cannot hide! A bit like the tax man.
This is a real tax dodger:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556730/Flat-deal-will-mean-tax-savings-for-Brown.html
What do you think of the Prime Tax dodger?
So, here’s one for the odds-setters here…
Is our new friend JC the MP for:
Islington North
Coventry South
Easington
Dagenham
I’m guessing either the first or the last, more likely the first.
12. It’s Dolly Draper. Got a unique style.
3. Hello Dolly! How’s Kate this evening? Are you sleeping in the car yet?
We’ll be spoiled for choice for posts in the morning - bank rescue package AND debate. The package is a lot more important than the debate (which I doubt will really be game-changing though both sides will be nastier), but as Arb Seeker said on the last thread, it’s not going to cure the world on its own so it’s going to be hard to judge its effectiveness.
The Populus poll is interesting because it’s so…balanced in many of its judgments, despite the continuing big Tory lead. We’ve had people here predicting a big Labour bounce because of the crisis, or a big Labour drop because of Mandelson’s return, or Cameron streaking away from Brown, or other major moves. Instead we’ve got voting intentions steady after the modest Labour gains over the conferences; people worried but not panicked; and a mixture of respect for Brown’s experience and attraction to the ‘change’ theme for Cameron. Obviously something like a 40/36 split on best PM can reflect lots of people with a passionate preference one way or the other, but overall the impression I get is the same as in canvassing - people are leaning towards ‘trying the other lot’, but not all that engaged or convinced yet.
There’s clearly a squeeze on the LibDems, though. If the Tories have a hiccup in their run of friendly media coverage, I wonder if we may be heading for a 1950/51 type election, where Labour’s vote rallies round (the current level is only 6% under the 2005 total and I’m confident we’ll get some more back by election day) but the Tories either just win or just fall short on a ‘change’ theme.
3 - Obama won’t damage his relationship with the man who will be Prime Minister for the vast majority of his own time as President by doing that. No way, no how.
No 7. Because Guido is moderated. He harps on about free speech, but doesnt post any critisim. Ironic
For the record Guido isnt even a Brit. He is an Irish citerzen, with an Irish passport, lives in Ireland, pays his tax to Ireland… But strangly is always harping on about the UK
No 7. Because Guido is moderated. He harps on about free speech, but doesnt post any critisim. Ironic
For the record Guido isnt even a Brit. He is an Irish citerzen, with an Irish passport, lives in Ireland, pays his tax to Ireland… But strangly is always harping on about the UK
15 - But the debate could provide more betting opportunities (unless you count bank shares as gambling…. fair point).
17 - Looks like I’m correct. Have you had a few drinks this evening?
I wonder if this was the key intervention that sealed RBS’s fate - Alex Salmond applying his anti-Midas touch!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4488909.ece
oh 11.
Has Ian Oakley been sentanced yet
Has Speilman Nanny gate case been finalised yet.
Would you like a list of the Hedge fund and short selling individuals who donate to the Tories
15. Don’t you think a lot of the Tory support is former voters hwo’ve not turned out but are now energised to vote? With a few swing voters thrown in, Labour could get close to the actual amount of voters they got in 2005 but still be facing wipeout.
16 You know it could happen
Can someone answer a question for me please?
If the Government injects £50bn of new capital into the banks, where is it getting that £50bn from? Is it just new money being printed? I think it has to be as surely they couldn’t borrow such a huge sum at such short notice.
Ditto all the money that the Bank of England has injected into the Money Markets in recent weeks. Has that also just been printed?
If all this money has been printed, surely that implies a huge increase in the Money Supply. Is that right? If so, that would normally lead to inflation (though I appreciate the recession will obviously counteract that).
Please can anyone confirm the above?
22 - Have some more Hedge Fund names -
Ronnie Cohen, Gavin Davies, (See where I’m going with this yet?) and the daddy of them all, the King of the B&B shorters - Paul Myners,
The Sun’s take. Huge cartoon halfway down makes me chuckle a little.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1780561.ece
17, 22
So you know who Guido, Oakley and Spelman is but you don’t know who Draper is. Pathetic astroturfing.
17. Free speech is about preventing the state from infringing your right to expression. His blog, it is his blog, by moderating views he is not censoring anyone.
McCain and Palin are whipping up HATRED against Obama - trying to brand him a terrorist and not on the side of America - dog whistling to the racists and using scare tactics as things get desperate.
“Kill him” yelled out somebody in the crowd on Saturday as McCain whipped up a storm. McCain did not comment. As this election gets dirtier, the hints at Obama’s colour will become more transparent and the issue of using race will come to the surface and when it does it will be all over for the Republicans.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22kill+him%22+obama&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
No 28
Googled Draper…1000 to choose from
28. He will be telling us how is a Conservative Party member, but thinks Brown is doing the right thing, while Cameron is a lightweight/dangerous/black Wednesday/15% interest etc…
31 So weak.
well well well
31 posts, not a single tory coming out for McCain…oh dear, sitting on the fence are we
woody at 23: yes, I do think so, though ‘energised’ is IMO overstating it a bit (local by-elections don’t seem to be bringing anyone flocking to the polls) - there is a significant chunk of former non-voters now *intending* to vote Tory. That’s important, but it’s like parties who do very well with young voters - you have a nagging doubt whether most of them will really bother on the day. It’s pretty standard advice for any candidate to focus on the people who voted in previous elections, as the best guide to whether they’ll do it again.
34. Neither McCain or Obama have what it takes to sort out the mess, Obama will please the rest of the world, but I hardly think that’s a reason for an american to vote for him.
But, since you are really just a childish pathetic troll, it matters not.
26 this is just too easy
I think you will find that it was Tory short sellers and the door of B&B
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1063358/How-Camerons-secretive-donors-bet-collapse-Bradford-amp-Bingley.html
15. I wonder if we may be heading for a 1950/51 type election.
Interesting point but No I don’t think so despite all of the Leftwing sweeties both in terms of spending and ideology being dished out to what was the “core Labour vote” in Labour’s recent lurch to the left.
I think people’s view of Brown has crytalised as him being a very poor PM. The latest gaff, letting RBS get picked off through poor press management is the latest proof that the Brown government needs euthinising asap! I thought it incisive the comment on newsnight by Geoffrey Robinson IIRC that Brown wanted to wait longer and look at all the details of various plans before implementing one.
If this does not have alarm bells ringing Nick, I don’t know what will! Time is of the essence particularly when Labour spin seems to have been rejuvinated. Why all the Stories about Mandelson’s Kidney Stones and Alister Campbell being part of a reformed band of operators!
Most people know that this team failed when times were easy, apart from the “kidney stories” offering a little bit of interesting gossip - the reformed team would have been better left as a page in history. It is a bit like watching an aged and bloated rocker doing pelvic thrusts to the dwandling band of fans - truely repugnant to the rest of the population. They may still like the sweaty oaf gyrating his beer belly on stage but everybody else has ditched them fopr the new kids on the block!
35. btw Nick, have a word with the powers that be in your party about Dolly Draper and the gang astroturfing on here. Making you all look ridiculous.
34 - I supported Hillary. Palin’s Couric interview stopped me supporting McCain. I’m now just hoping Obama is better than I think he’ll be.
37 - Very quick. Tapping into Dollys Rebuttal Database?
35 Yes but Nick many of these people may well have voted in 92 but not since - they have got history just nobody to vote for in 14 years. Don’t forget that if the Conservatives only focus on those who have voted in the past, they’d never win. (Hits forehead) Oh right, yeah, I see.
37. I am a life-long Tory voter, but now that I have been made aware that some people who contributed to the Conservative Party thought that bank shares were over-valued, were right, and made some money out of it I now realise that Brown’s long stewardship of the economy wasn’t in the slightest bit responsible for this collapse and will vote for a serious man next time.
Funny how this site Political Betting is a lid/dem site. Or so Iain Dale claims
So a lib/dem site is awash with Camera On lovers, but its only none Camera On supporters who are acsused of being troll.
It is YOU who are the trolls
38: but if that’s what people think, Martin, shouldn’t Cameron be more than 40-36% ahead of Brown on “good judgment”?
39: I seriously doubt whether anyone is bothering to organise an ‘official’ posting effort here - if they are, I suggest they don’t bother. There are good reasons to contribute here (it’s a fairly friendly cross-party forum with common interests), but the potential for changing votes is not one of them - it’d be like sending evangelical missionaries to a conclave of cardinals. But JC is more lucid and no more partisan than plenty of familiar faces here, and adds a welcome bit of balance to the weathercocks of this world.
Don’t rate McCain or Obama. Not sure which would do the most damage. Quite like Palin but that is partly for loins-related reasons and because lefties hate her.
37 - RBS fall today can’t be put at the door of short selling. Actually, why am I bothering. People who are simply here to astroturf a particular view are so obvious.
For what it is worth, I spent a very interesting evening with a couple of Brits who live and work in California, both ardent Obama supporters (in LA that must be a shock lol!) who regard McCain as an ancient old fogey with no more experience of doing anything than anyone - “what does being a prisoner of war have to do with running the country” was a favoured refrain. However Biden shook their faith in Prophet Obama and although they prefer the Obama Biden ticket to McCain Palin, it got a lot closer (they still think Palin nuttier than the Beatrix Potter Squirrel). Given my view that McCain would be the natural pick if he was 10 years younger, and that age shouldn’t be a barrier so he should be President now, you can imagine it was a lively evening.
Back to the US election
Will Gideon be flying out to the states to work for the republican party in the next few weeks.
In 2000, before an MP, Gideon worked ( paid ) for the republican campaign to get Bush in….oh dear
35. Sorry to destroy your illusions, as you have little other cause for optimism.
year turnout
1979 76%
1983 73%
1987 75%
1992 78%
1997 71% all were in normal range until …
2001 59%
2005 61%
http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/turnout.htm
McCain should be copying Osbourne and going left on the financial crisis.
45 - You must think it’s highly unlikely Gordon Brown can win an election within the next 20 months? The few polls suggesting Gordon Brown is getting some credit in a crisis are still showing Labour struggling for 30% in the polls. Even with the in-built electoral bias against the Tories (which will be relieved somewhat by the awful results Labour will get in Wales and Scotland) it seems almost impossible for Cameron not to be PM by summer 2010.
Unless Labour can find a popular war to fight, which seems unlikely.
RBS might be the first share buy of this banking mess up.
If this capital injection goes to plan RBS can get room to restructure. If it rides out this period then it has plenty it can do longer term.
Mind you it would take a bid of balls to hold the shares with a 3-5 year view right now when the markets barely look 3-5 hours ahead.
48 - More obsession about Mr Osborne’s name! That’s just sad. Ask James.
52 - Thing is the shares are becoming so cheap that it could be a risk worth taking (if you are many years from retirement).
Australia down over 4% and NZ nearly 2%
48 So he didn’t work for a losing campaign. Something that will be seen as a positive in the opposition. People may disagree with Bush (although I’ve always been partial, sorry, family site I know…) but he did win two elections despite a disastrous foreign policy.
To try and tar George Osbourne with Bush’s reputation because he once worked for his campaign is just the same as the attempts to tar Cameron with the ERM because he worked for Lamont. At the end of the day neither was in a position to alter policy!
45: ‘But JC is more lucid…’
Well, if you say so. But, yes, I think if JC really is a ‘rebuttal unit’ astroturfer then Gordon should dismiss Mr Draper forthwith and demand a refund. JC is clearly just a good old fashioned wind-up merchant, though he appears to be struggling for material alas.
54. Or are playing with someone elses money..no wait, thats whats got us here.
Truly amazing.
Let me pose a question
Do Tory bloggers think they own blogland. It seems so.
53 posts - still no tory trolls backing McCain. His speech at Tory confernce last year must have been awful
52 - The ‘Blue Chip’ banks are now trading at market capitalisations, two or three times projected annual earnings. Those are serious returns long term if they can ride out the storms short term.
45. No, because an election has not been called. At the moment Brown has the incumbancy advantage. Even if people say he has experience on the economy, does not necessarily mean that they are inclined to vote for his party. Interestingly if you look back to say the 1992 election Major was miles ahead (On performance as PM) until the election was called then he seemed to get a rating of 42/3% approxiamtly the share of the vote the Tories got. I believe Brown had very favourable coverage around the conference apart from the Ruth Kelly resignation and indeed the Financial Crisis played to his stregnths of his 10 years as C of E.
By defination if this crisis goes on until an election, (there will not be one before the Euro elections next year at the very earliest) then any positive will turn negative for Brown! Obviously you want to talk up your leader - But I think many people now have an opinion of him being a poor PM and we are collectively just making do until the electorate decide!
The subject is Obmama and McCain
And in every blog Tory trolls are pre-ocupied with labour trolls, anyone who even vaguely questioned Cameron or Gideon.
Nice distraction
59 posts still no Tories backing McCain
59 JC I held out a forlorn hope that McCain would win in a post at 47. However I concede that it is now unlikely. Although not as unlikely as Labour winning the next General Election.
51 “Unless Labour can find a popular war to fight, which seems unlikely”
Labour has decimated Britain’s defences.
Fighting a war is easy. Winning requires a government on the same side as our Armed Forces.
62. What do you mean by backing? I would prefer him to win, but I think he has no chance now. And?
25.
The two interventions are very different. The money market ‘injections’ have to be consistent with the Bank’s current monetary policy stance i.e. ‘official’ rate. Remember the Bank does not ‘administer’ this interest rate, rather it adjusts the reserves commercial banks are required to hold at the central bank so as to hit the interest rate called for by the Monetary Policy Committee. The so-called liquidity operations are financial swaps, whose monetary impact has to be consistent with hitting the official rate. The final impact of all this on the ‘money supply’ in the economy comes through the banks themselves. That’s why at least in the short term, monetary policy is currently a bit of an irrelevance - the banks are tightening the money supply in the economy regardless of the BoE stance.
Any new capital for banks is totally different and would have to be borrowed. Interestingly, the ‘flight to quality’ means the Government can borrow quite cheaply at the moment.
Give it a couple more weeks, JC, and by then no will be admitting to have worked to get Gordon Brown’s Labour Party elected! Certainly not being paid for the task.
Suggest you make a start on revising your CV….
67
Give it a couple more weeks,Maruee, and by then no will be admitting to have worked to get Camera Ons oppostion Tory party Certainly not being paid for the task.
Suggest you make a start on revising your CV….
*** What is your point ***
67 still no Tory McCain backers
25. The liquidity injections are essentially short, in some cases very short term so literally it comes back nearly as soon as it goes out. Its just wheel greasing cashflow. Since its not loaned for very long so its I would guess the same money circulating out and back very quickly.
Mike, when you get the new functionality to filter out certain posters, I’d like to test it on JC.
This may come as a shock to you Tory Bloggers
YOU DO NOT OWN BLOGLAND.
SOME PEOPLE DO DISAGREE WITH YOU
YOU ARE NOT RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME.
YOU SLAG OFF LAB LIBS SNP.
I HAVE YET TO SEE A SINGLE POST TELLING ME WHAT CAMERA ON OR GIDEON WOULD MEAN TO THIS COUNTRY. NOTHING TO SAY - NOTHING.
66. Many thanks for your reply.
Must say I find it a bit confusing - I think you’re suggesting the Money Market injections are Money Supply increases but that they are (largely) offset by Money Supply decreases due to reductions in bank lending. Is that right?
If the capital injections have to be borrowed, how could the Government borrow such a huge amount so quickly? Even this Government has “only” been borrowing about £40bn per year. How could they now borrow £50bn at such short notice?
Although I find Gabble a little tedious at times, on the whole I would say the day shift are far more lucid and amusing than the night.
68 - Do you understand politics? The Republican party is not the same as the Conservative party and the Democrats are nothing like Labour.
I can honestly say that I vote Conservative and would usually vote Democrat if I was a US citizen.
Why are you getting excited that no-one is saying McCain is going to win?
71 - Why are you shouting. Why are you so upset that George Osborne is like our Prime Minister in choosing to use his middle name?
68 See thomas at 65 and me at 63.
As you well know it does not always follow that the Tories support the Rep candidate or Labour support the Dem candidate. Indeed who was Rep Pres Bush’s favoured world leader? I remember now, it was Labour PM Blair.
Equally in my area I know of at least one Tory MP supporting the Democrats, initially Clinton but now Obama.
As a figurehead I like the idea of Obama, it’s just I’ve read his policies and he’s a bit left wing for me on some issues. Equally Senator McCain is a bit right wing for me on some issues. But of the two I’d pick McCain anyday.
I support him, just like I supported the Conservatives in 97, 01 and 05. Even though I knew they’d lose.
70. Isnt that being a nanny. Like the nanny state that all tories complain about.
wow.. how arogant. the truth hurts, so stop them speaking. How very tory.
I dont swear, i havent insulted anyone. You lot insult just about everyone who dares question you, and you think you have the right.
the arogance is sooooo tory
71 still no backers for Tory heart throb McCain
74 Uh-oh…dont feed the troll.
71 Rent a mouth
Ignorance is bliss.
69. Thanks for that - makes sense.
71. No. It can’t be. DES?!!!
74 I know they are not the same
However the reps are the sister party of the tories
Labour sister party of the dems.
each is ideolically close ( not exactly, but close ).
The problem for McCain is that the more the American public see of Obama, the more they seem to like him and hte less credible McCain’s attacks seem on him.
This is similar to the problem the Labour government have with Cameron.
Also 74.
Cameron, I can assure you is praying for a McCain win.
But your closeness to him has become a liability
77 If we are all so horrid to anyone who isn’t a Tory, why doesn’t Nick P complain like mad? Equally I can’t remember anyone being particularly beastly to Mike despite his well known affinity to the Lib Dems. Or SBS. Or tabman. Yes, there are lots of Tory bloggers on here, but there are lots of Tory voters out there now! If you come on here with some sensible comments which add to the discussion, rather than picking fights, you will find that people are prepared to discourse with you more.
JC, you seem to like taking the piss out of “Gideon” for his oh-so funny name, but you hide behind an initial yourself. Could it be that the “J” stands for something which still causes you pain when you remember what mummy and daddy christened you? Maybe Jonquil? Jasper? Jeremiah? Justinian?
Or perhaps your parents were just exceptionally prescient - when they named you “Jerk”….??
Yep, that’s pretty much right, although one of the puzzles of the last 14 months or so has actually been how mild the credit ‘crunch’ has so far been with respect to monetary aggregates both here and in other major economies. But most economists expect a marked tightening from here on in. If you’re really interested in the dark arts of open market operations, here’s a link to the Bank’s current policy:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/markets/money/publications/redbookjan08.pdf
On borrowing, the Debt Management Office will have to time any debt offers so as to get a good rate in time for the Govt’s spending requirements. But there is big investor appetite for Govt. paper at the moment, so it will probably be surprisingly cheap.
81 DES
Mad as a box of frogs!
During the dem race for a candidate, every single tory blog was awash with anti dem sentiment, and postive posts for McCain… now silence
Wouldn’t the world be a better place if McCain had won the Republican primary in 2000 rather than Bush. No Abu Graib, no Gitmo, possibly even no invasion in Iraq (I know he voted for, but suspect had he been in White House it would never have been a vote)
Is the debate on before 3? I’m not sure I will stay at work after I finish. If the polls were closer I would but it just seems a question of how many EV Obama wins by now.
89 I think that is because many Tories felt as I do, that McCain would be a better President than Obama, although not as useful at healing the world. I am worried about Obama because I beleive that hopes have been built up that he will somehow wave a magic wand and OBL will come out of his cave and surrender, the Palestinians and the Israelis will lie down together, the babe will put his hand in the adders nest and the world will be a happy place. Clearly none of that will happen. The reason nobody is promoting McCain on here is this is a betting website and we are all aware that he is going to lose. There is no value in backing him because his price is not going to tighten.
89 - But this is not a Tory blog! It’s run by a Lib Dem and has posters from all parties. Usually discussing British or American politics with some other knowledge from around the world.
The only thing I sometimes wish is that more people were open as to who they are but I understand high profile people wanting to remain anonymous.
90. Agreed. McCain wouldn’t have had people like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz in his administration and there wouldn’t have been the push to go for Iraq. Afghanistan would have happened as a justified response to 9/11 but subsequent events would have been very different.
If, as seems likely, McCain goes down to a heavy defeat that could well see the Republicans turn away from the centre. It may have been better in the long run for the Republicans if it had been Romney or Huckabee who gets steamrollered by Obama as that would have made it clear that right wing evangelicalism had no mass support.
18 of the first 93 posts on this thread from a single poster. Now that’s waht I call dedication to the cause (albeit a lost one).
I must admit, “Camera on” was quite funny the first time. But then, so was “Bliar”.
Im off now.
Enjoyed put you lot to rights.
Good luck to obama, I hope he screws McCain in to the ground, and start a new UK US era of consensus. I have no doudt that the current governmnet and the new US admin will have a very very good relationship. Camera On can lick his wounds for backing McCain, and invite Palin to the 2009 conference.
Its after midnight so all the tory PPC’s will probably be out slashing lib dem tyres….nice
From the off, this blog was full of people having a rounded and informed debate on the merits of the respective Presidential candidates. Plenty of Tories here who were for Obama from the start. I was one of them.
I don’t bet - but enjoy interacting with those who do. If I did bet, though, I would have been on Obama at 50/1…
The format doesn’t seem to lend itself to surprises. I think taken out of context, McCain’s best strategy would be to treat Obama with some respect, and to tell the voters how he would actually go about solving the crisis. Given his deeply negative campaign strategy, that would be having your cake and eating it. I’m not sure it will work, but if he has any sense, that is what he will try.
Alternatively, he can try to talk about Obama being risky for much of the time. That may come naturally to him because he really seems to dislike Obama. Data so far seems to show it will not be appreciated by voters.
The reality simply is that McCain has done nothing to build himself a positive platform on economic issues, or anything at all, really. Of course it would have been tough, but at one point, McCain claimed to be a leader, didn’t he? When McCain is debating today, his campaign is run entirely by the same guys he ran against in 2000 and all he has to offer is “that other guy is not really an American”.
To me, this campaign does not seem to be much about sound bites and zingers, but indeed about issues. That’s perhaps the biggest surprise. Given that, I’m not sure how McCain could turn this around with empty hands.
94 Agree wholeheartedly. Karl Rove has ruined Reagan Republicans by mortgaging the future to the Christian Right. The US could end up becoming more and more fundamentalist. Some of their views I find reprehensible. To live your entire life literally by a book is as bad if it is the Bible as if it is the Torah or the Quran. You have to understand the message - love one another and do good - not work by the rules.
I know I shouldn’t rise to it, but I’m up for a tussle:
“I dont swear, i havent insulted anyone… the arogance is sooooo tory”
Hmmm…
Do you not see that your own posts are coming across with a tinge of arrogance? You are on the right side, you tell the ‘truth’, you have ignored the posts where Tories admit they support McCain but can’t see him winning, you harp on about hedge funders/short sellers who support the Tories but ignore those who support Labour…
Was that twit a labour troll or an Obama fan?
Confused…?
100. That’s of course for JC’s eyes to roll over
98 I’m sure I read somewhere that Palin was saying McCain would carry on banging away at Obama’s “character” in tonight’s debate. Could be sparky (and unwise) if he does….
http://www.illwillpress.com/FOR33.html
103 As a McCain supporter, I’m no longer sure I’d believe a word out of Palin’s mouth. First rule of politics, if you don’t know, say so and move on. Never fudge and never, ever lie. She keeps doing both.
103 - I don’t see how he can win whatever tactics he uses tbh.
What’s the possibility that if McCain mentioned Ayres or personally attacks Obama the audience at the debate boo?
Maybe McCain should take a leaf out of Joe Biden’s handbook on winning Presidential Elections… “This is no time for a novice”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/something_new.html
Should this be something they are spending our money on?
Sadly my opinion of this US Presidential election is that both McCain and Obama are equally flawed. They always pick the wrong candidates!
At the moment I favour an Obama victory simply for the fact that McCain has nothing positive to say. That said, I liked McCain in 2000 and favoured him over Bush, but then favoured Bush over Pig Head in the General Election.
The October Surprise this year could be anything yet & so i would not rule out a late comeback for McCain. For instance they Kill Bin Laden and send his head back and Bush “shows” it to the nation. I don’t think the October surprise was the US bailout bill, something will happen yet but its a surprise!
(In England,with by-then Greenwich Mean Time):roll on the early hours of Wednesday 5th November-GO-O_BAMA_A!!!(As I go to youtube and start dancing to Fleetwood Mac ‘Dont Stop Thinking About Tomorrow’!)
87. Thanks again for your reply - think I understand it now!
Any odds on how many times Uncle Albert will mention the war?
I’m taking on Obama Hussein tonight for presidency. I sense he will be exposed in tonight’s debate, and America will finally wake up and realise this is no time to put a novice with links to dangerous radical fanatics in the white house.
I have laid several thousand pounds against Obama on Betfair.
109. Are they? From the sounds of it they’re just rearranging a set of bulletins, and I would’ve thought they get revenue from BBC america who run adverts
113. What price did you lay at?
If you want to follow world opinion during the debate you should take a look at this:
http://election.twitter.com/
It’s more revealing than that CNN dialometer thing anyway.
114 - But it smacks of kowtowing to a foreign agenda too. Like their forelock tugging in China.
Here we go…
Was McCain limping there or is that just how he walks?
119 - He walks with something of a limp. He also has problems with his arms. Poor chap.
I’m struggling not to laugh they look like poor stand-up comedians prowling round like that.
Oooh! He looked at him!
“Not you Tom” - was that a dig at Brokaw?
120: There’s something of The Penguin about him. All he needs is the top hat and he’s there.
McCain has obviously realised not acknowledging Obama was bad. Even brought an Obama supporter into his own answer.
Obama’s ability not to whistle into the mic is making him sound better.
McCain has just talked about re-adjusting homeowners mortgages to reflect their current valuations.
If Brown promised that here Labours poll ratings would jump 10 ticks and we’d be back in a proper fight.
Of course, it would cost trillions of pounds and penalise savers and those who haven’t recklessly taken on debt…but who cares about this selfish minority?
123 - LOL. Nice one!
McCain 2nd main answer flatlining badly - not saying how the rescue will help Americans.
Frannie and Feddie?
125. Not sure he said that. Thought he was talking about stabilising home values.
I’m not sure Obama’s ‘unsurprisingly’ was a wise move.
Both of them seem to be garnering a favourable response so far. Obama slightly higher, particularly among women.
Does McCain have his jaw wired such that he can only open just about his mouth? How does he manage at the dentist? Does he survive on liquid foods?
The uncommitted women want his babies!
129. He was talking about stabilising home values but if you’ve got sky+, rewind and have a listen again to how he proposed to do it.
The moral hazard involved in such a ’solution’ is obvious.
He’s just said it again!
I’ve just done a quick calculation of how much it would cost the
US Govt to buy up mortgages at the current house value bla bla and it comes out to one billion zillion trillion big ones.
Oh dear, taking questions from morons.
Both working the room good, McCain is giving the better answers but he is coming across as a bit arrogant.
Speding cut not impressing the men.
134. Agree he did say it. But it sounds totally implausible in practice!
Would need to see the detail - I can’t imagine he would just write off a large chunk of millions of people’s mortgages. Indeed he said the Government would buy the bad loans - how can you buy something that has been written off?
This formats seems to be suiting Obama much better than the formal debates.
139. Format was meant to suit McCain.
In my view it doesn’t make any difference. It’s still a series of mini speeches.
McCain does angry man very well. Not sure if it comes across well though!
McCain is losing but he’s still broadly receiving favourable rating just not as high as Obama. It’s been pretty good though.
How can the audience keep a straight face at John ‘I’m a reformer’ McCain. He has whitewashed his entire career, especially the last eight years.
140. Well at least with McCain hovering on the front row, there’s less chance of them nodding off.
138. It’s the sort of soundbite populist cr*p that Brown would come out with before he realised the implications of the proposal in its practical application.
Or, more likely, he’d force it through and then realise that he’s shafted savers, ftb’s and our children and grandchildren who won’t be able to afford to buy a home because they’re paying punitive taxes to make good the recklessness of todays homeowners.
I want McCain to win but i’m not sure he’s the right man if he’s coming out with cr*p like that!
Obama respectfully watching McCain as he listens; McCain still mostly looking away whilst Obama speaks.
What is the evidence / source that Sarah Palin thought that Afghanistan was a neighbouring country? What was the excat quote? Was it taken out of context? Or lost in translation somehow?
144
If I was there I’d be praying for an ejector seat.
Obama is throwing a bit too much mud at McCain when he doesn’t need to. He should be rising above it and talking solely about what he wants to do.
I’m sort of hoping that voters will look at McCain as a steady old-hand in times that need that sort of approach.
I rather suspect he’s coming across as the old guy who doesn’t quite ‘get it’.
9/11 - zinger!
Men seem to be seriously underwhelmed when either candidate starts talking about cutting spending programmes. “Yeah, whatever….”
146 - He seems to be taking notes, I don’t see that as too bad.
The crucial thing to note is that McCain can’t win without beating Obama. Unless Obama goes mental in the next hour he won’t win at the very least. Good news for Obama so far.
CNN tracker showing Obama better at appealing to Republicans than McCain appealing to Democrats.
McCain’s hits on Obama don’t seem to register on the squiggly lines at all
Obama losing Republicans when he opposes tax cuts for high earners
Women don’t like McCain attacking Obama. First time wither of them got an unfavourable rating tonight.
Oooh but they do like tax credits for kiddies.
It’s interesting to listen to both sides arguing over who would cut taxes more.
Labour have managed to equate wanting tax cuts with selfishness in such a way as to leave Cameron treading on egg shells when the subject is raised.
I think the Conservatives are missing a trick.
Halfway through almost I have Obama winning. Anyone disagree?
Obama: “Straight talk express lost a wheel” - very good line.
158 - DIfferent systems. British voters are less gullible and the British press would rightly ask for cuts to be costed. We’re skint. We can’t cut taxes much.
159. Yes agreed. He’s certainly not losing so good for Obama in my view.
Evening,
159 - I make it a poor no score draw so far. Dull mud-slinging and arguing over tax/energy detail without either side selling a vision. I know Obama can do better than this, not sure if McCain can.
Agreed that McCain isn’t doing enough to change things. Quite a decent performance from McCain but Obama is better.
McCain not getting much of a response when he tries to emphasise his “mavericky” credentials….
There is very little from McCain that has fired up the Uncommitted so far. He’s behind points, but neither landing many punches.
161. If hundreds of billions of pounds of taxpayers money can be sp*nked up the wall on propping up profligate banks then i’m sure the public will be very receptive to £10bn of their OWN money coming back to them in an effort to stimulate consumer spending and breathe life back in to the economy.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/the_real_american_idol/article1781335.ece
“I travelled all over the world looking the greenhouse gases”
Irony!
165 - I think another 45 mins of this will send me to sleep. They just bang on about energy and tax.
Both doing well among uncommitted voters according to CNN lines but Obama slightly ahead. Nothing is likely to change from tonight so Obama looks home and hosed (barring Osama being found).
168. lol, genius.
166 - But it can’t be resp*nked.
McCain just lost chunks of his independent vote after being pro-nuclear and got it back when he also mentioned green technologies!
167. That was written quickly!
McCain is winning this one by a big margin.
Anyone who takes what the Clinton News Network reports seriously is about as brainwashed as anyone still supporting the Labour party in 2008.
No one is landing the punches here, McCain is losing just by drawing this debate.
Watching the Twitter feed it seems that ‘My friends’ is getting on people’s wick.
“That one”? Rude.
McCain rarely seems to get the lines above tepid.
174 - No-one is winning by a large margin, they are both boring as f*ck. Anyone saying either is miles ahead is talking their book.
Anyone want to take bets on how long till one of the candidates mentions tractor production figures?
I think McCain is slightly on top in this one.
Obama seems a little flat.
McCain: “Do you know who voted for it?”
McCain points to Obama without looking at him
McCain: “That one!”
176: I couldn’t believe he said that.
I think McCain’s aggressive approach has worked quite well tonight. I’m not sure how new this promise to buy up mortgages is, but it might be the sort of thing that could make a positive difference for him.
Both of them take a dive when they attack the other. They should be shown these graphs.
180 - Obama seems bored now.
“do all the things that are necessary”. Has McCain been coached by The Badger?
176. “That One” aside to Obama from McCain was odd and did seem rude. Obama looked angry I thought.
I can’t help thinking how much better both these guys are than the utter sh1te choice last time.
McCain seems to be ignoring the green-amber-red lights!
The BBC just inserted some scary music. I thought the terrorist fist bump was about to come out.
189 I think they both are doing that!
189. Probably can’t see them.
Quite right, Senator Obama. The USA’s infant mortality rate is the biggest scandal in your country.
I’m not sure Obamas claim that America is an ‘incredibly wealthy country’ is going to resonate when the U.S. is on the verge of economic collapse.
Those women are REALLY positive towards Obama on healthcare
194. LOL!
195 Partly why Obama has a twenty-odd point lead with women. And women were 53% of the voters last time….
I don’t think America is in the mood for buying more wars right now.
McCain obviously strong on military matters. Particularly among men.
McCain was doing really well on foreign affairs until he started hitting Obama - then fell off fast.
McCain on firmer ground with the National Security aspect.
Oooooh…Obama questioning Iraq without qualifying it with support for the troops.
Correction: He squeezed it in…almost as an afterthought.
eww. Obama suggesting Iraq has loads of money. Not sure I like that.
At first I thought McCain was doing very well. His folksy style and warm tones seemed more inviting than Obama’s rather uncomfortable stiffness. However as it’s gone on this hail and hearty ‘my friends’ stuff has moved from folksy to sweet and sickly and now I can hardly listen to him.
McCain yet to land a good punch. Will he go on Ayers? Very risky with this audience but so far MCCain’s failed to make any ground.
GAH. It’s so predictable the upturn as soon as you say “The USA Is just wonderful” or some other crap.
Some pretty low blows there from McCain almost inferring that Obama would be a cowardly defeatist when it came to military issues.
People who are writing McCain off - just imagine if he could get ALL of ‘his friends’ out to vote? McCain landslide!
205 - I guess he goes nuclear in the last debate if his poll numbers fail to pick up. I’m really not sure how this will be reported in the press. It’s been more or less even, I guess it depends on what that Washington press corps report.
Oooh. Tricky question. Didn’t Obama say he would cross the Pakistani border even if he didn’t have permission?
209. I think it’s the debate polls which are key. If they say X has won, it stops the press saying Y won.
204. Roger. I find the “my friends” phrase rather annoying but we are not the target audience. Maybe Americans like it or at least aren’t irritated? Are your Dutch jury in attendance to give an opinion?
Reminding people how old he is when he says “my friend Teddy Roosevelt…”
“My friend George Washington….”
212: Watching the universal twitter feed it is pretty clear it is not going down well.
A side: ‘Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran’
B side: ‘Next stop Baghdad’
Attacks from either of them register in the negative.
I can get Osama… Yeah, right.
212. Unfortunately not! And you’re probably right. However having just heard Obama say he’s going to ‘hunt Bin Laden down and take him out’ I’ve given up with both of them. But as you say I’m not an American.
McCain “I know how to get Osama” So why haven’t you told the President the last seven years?
Some pretty wild claims from McCain about catching OBL.
Lol! They’re still on about Osama! Join the 20th century!
McCain is starting to look like the Jack Nicholson character in A Few Good Men. Only he knows best. He has the experience and the medals - how dare a young upstart who knows nothing challenge him?
‘We’re not going to have another Cold War with Russia’
*Shouted over the sound of the frantic building of a new fleet of nuclear submarines in Murmansk.*
Nikkei down 4.54% and Hang Sang down 4.43%
David Roe. If the Americans do eventually capture OBL what will The Sun headline be? Osama Bin Landed?
225. You’ve missed a calling lol.
222. I agree that McCain has not concealed his animosity towards Obama.
“This requires only a “yes” or “no” answer”.
Optimistic!
225 - I have no idea! It will probably be in the same paper that Lord Lucan gives hmself up though.
I’ve had enough. McCain 6.5 Obama 6
Next up is Terry Sherry.
How did this end up on foreign policy? GOP staffers spamming the internet lines?
I’m wondering if we had to go to press too early because I’m wondering if we end with this topic the send off will be a minor McCain win.
Overall I think Obama has done better but his best answers were over an hour ago.
Obama will prevent Iran from buying petrol…
232. David Roe: How did this end up on foreign policy?
It wasn’t supposed to be limited to domestic policy - that’s next week.
Of course, the foreign policy debate had a load of domestic policy intruding too.
McCain 9.5
Obama 2.25
Clear win for McCain and will close the polls right back up. This is an open race again and the racism element should swing this for McCain.
I’d score this a narrow win for McCain. I doubt it will make any difference to the polls, though.
In the current climate, I really doubt most Americans are that interested in Foreign Policy. I think they’ve had enough of Iraq and they really are not that bothered about the intricacies of what’s going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
234 - Ah OK. I was under the impression this was domestic. Good job I wasn’t entrusted with writing a story tonight
Tony Blair, William Hague or David Cameron would destroy both of these guys.
Gordon Brown could almost hold his own.
I think Obama has shaded it. 7.0 to McCain 6.0. He’s not answering the last question though.
Obama is full of empty rhetoric. Has zero policies, zero knowledge on foreign policy and is friends with dangerous radicals. This debate has revealed everything America needs to know about Obama. If the great people of the USA elect Obama I’ll eat a steaming pile of donkey ****.
McCain has delivered. The election is back on.
235. Are you watching a different debate. I think Obama was better but neither great nor poor.
237 - I score it 6 each, but I think McCain’s ended well while Obama opened well and I do wonder if the fact McCain has ended strongly (or is it Obama ended weakly) might have that in the forefront of the viewers’ minds at the end of the debate.
After the first debate, most experts/people on here initially thought McCain had won until the polls said Obama had won.
I wonder if it’ll be the same tonight.
Truly inspirational stuff from McCain there to close out the debate.
Good finish from McCain so call it a score draw.
McCain’s final comments - fingers down throat time.
First half Obama shaded it; McCain came back a little on the foreign policy stuff. But nothing new was learnt. Which is bad news for McCain.
Despite his verbal tics, a narrow win for McCain.
McCain working the room quickly after the debate. I think he feels he’s got the upper hand.
McCain won this for me
McCain has raised enough questions about Obama’s character to turn this election around. The maverick knows the future of America rests on the outcome in November, and he wasn’t found wanting tonight.
My eyes are literally welling up as I type this.
God bless America.
Did McCain refuse Obama’s handshake there?
Cindy McCain shook Obama’s hand instead.
Obama still too oblique and professorial. McCain more “real”.
McCain won on soundbites and theatrics by a mile…
David Gergen said it was flat. I agree.
Obama was steady if a little dull. McCain had awkward twitchy moments, and almost lost his temper at points - so a pretty clear if unshowy win for Obama
Good finish from McCain so call it a score draw. But McCain then avoids shaking Obama’s hand at the end, showing his “disdain” says Wolf.
246 Agree.
Both scary as Hell. Both just fell short of saying they’d bomb Russia.
Obama “modestly ahead” per CNN analyst who advised 4 different Presidents (sorry don’t know his name). He also noted Obama did well with women.
Nothing changed to save McCain.
Middle America wouldn’t want to shake Obama’s hand tonight after his outrageous disregard for them tonight. I think refusing to shake his hand will resonate positively with the viewers back home. A bold move from a maverick politican.
McCain is stupid not to do something so simple as shake Obama’s hand. His animosity will cost him dear particularly with African-Americans who are coming over to Obama big time.
should have agreed with with 249
Alex Castellanos saw the same debate I did. I agree with everything he said. Status quo ante bellum.
Luntz focus group on Fox now.
264 - McCain isn’t going to win among AA. He’s not going to win, period.
Luntz focus group:
Q: Who did you relate to most?
A: Obama wins easily.
Luntz group:
Obama swung it on Healthcare.
Brit Hume seething about the liberals lunatics Luntz has called upon tonight.
Easy win for McCain on the economy.
A bold move from a maverick politican. - Maverick? In what way is Bush supporter John McCain a maverick? Are you muddling him up with John McClain, the Bruce Willis hero in the Die Hard Movies?
264 Agree, shaking hands with your adversary is the most basic of civilities. A massive error of judgement by McCain.
Obama and Michelle are still in the hall shaking hands and taking pictures
Luntz said the focus group preferred McCain until Obama spoke about Healthcare.
When he asked who thought McCain was better on the economy, not many hands went up!
Missed the debate, but it sounds like I missed little.
Always going to be an air of anticlimax about these things - Obama won the moment Lehman started the dominoes falling. Short of something momentous to shift the focus away from that (on the order of Iran going mental and fullscale attacking US forces in Iraq), there’s absolutely nothing McCain can do.
“That one” and not shaking hands will be all that people remember from this debate. Bad news for McCain.
274. PfP:Agree, shaking hands with your adversary is the most basic of civilities. A massive error of judgement by McCain.
I agree with that. Where I disagree with our genial host is his comment that it will “cost him dear with African-Americans”, who are going to vote at least 90% against him anyway - this won’t turn many of the remaining 10% against him.
The description by McCain of Obama as “that one” is going to be picked up. McCain simply doesn’t get it.
Not the most exciting of debates - but I think Obama won it with style - McCain showed too much disdain, and calling Obama “That One” was totally pathetic - Obama won it on the Economy, Health Care, and Foreign easily
CNN poll soon.
278. I barely noticed the first (but thought it quite humorous) and missed the second entirely..
It’ll be the soundbites that matter, and McCain won those hands down…
re 279 It’s not about turning African-American votes but getting them motivated to register and then vote in the first place.
The TV audiences for the first debate showed a higher proportion of African-American households watching than any other segment - a good sign for Obama.
280: Katie Couric already picked up on it (as with the shaking hands thing)
CNN Focus Group (25 people) - Who won?
Obama 12, McCain 10
Why would McCain want to shake hands with someone who obviously hates America through his associations?
278 - There are areas in the deep south where some of them would love to see Obama being treated with disdain by McCain.
CBS Poll. Who won debate?
Obama 39%
MCain 27%
286. Please don’t use the abbreviation. It’s the Clinton News Network, and always in the tank for Democrats.
83 AdamB
Good post, although once again its a shame that many bloggers tend to focus on the personalities rather than the policies.
When Blair upped the bar on Thatcherism it seemed to me that most Tories would be very comfortable with him as PM. Of course, although his policies were Tory his party identification was for some reason NuLabour, and thus Tories had to hate him. I guess I have to admit that although the Bushboy policies on the credit crunch and those of Brownstuff are the best sociaism I’ve seen in years, I still can’t stand the b*ggers.
Malcolm
284. OGH: It’s not about turning African-American votes but getting them motivated to register and then vote in the first place.
Already done months ago, to a large extent. The extra amount this might add is insignificant compared with the fact they have a black man to vote for.
280 I’ve heard he’s called his wife worse.
270 re Luntz group — Paul Krugman in his book suggested health care is the key to getting lower ses GOP voters into the Democrat camp.
MSNBC Focus Group
60% Obama
40% McCain
The personal attacks McCain levied against Obama gained no traction and Republicans HATED the “buy the bad loan” idea
Had a look at Intrade: moved to McCain during the debate, but ended with a minor overall Obama bump. Roughly what you’d expect from immediate impressions of a score draw.
Be interesting to see what it does after early morning US news coverage comes out tomorrow (say mid afternoon our time).
So far EVERY poll / focus group says Obama won.
Same story as first debate - various experts say McCain won but the public think Obama won.
What was odd about the debate was in the middle when I stopped watching and just listened: without the visual cues Obama sounded a lot less coherent, as if he was just rambling.
Obama in to 1.28 on Betfair (from 1.30)
Is it possible that McCain deliberately slighted Obama tonight in an attempt to connect with and garner the votes of racists? I doubt it but on the other hand his behaviour is hard to explain otherwise and hard to excuse anyway.
re 296 Betfair saw ups and down but no change.
297. Mike L: Same story as first debate - various experts say McCain won but the public think Obama won.
Which is really interesting.
I wonder if it’s the case that the public expects Obama to win, and so they perceive a draw (frankly, I’ve found both debates utterly dull and adding nothing we don’t already know) or even a narrow McCain win as an Obama win.
Certainly the American public is favourably pre-disposed to Obama. And if these trends are global, Cameron’s looking good for 2010.
“THAT ONE” - watch the video and read some reaction.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/that-one-mccain-calls-oba_n_132802.html
re 300. Clearly the racist vote is the one group that McCain needs to develop - yep I’m sure that was the strategy.
300 — McCain ignoring Obama is consistent with Bush doing the same to Gore so I’d imagine it is a deliberate Republican tactic rather than a personal or even racial slight.
298 I did the same. Certainly Obama appeared stronger in the first half of the debate, especially as regards healthcare, where I felt he won hands down.
CNN Poll
Obama - 54%
McCain - 30%
CNN poll:
Who won?
Obama 54%
McCain 30%
Opinion of Obama?
Favourable: up from 60 pre debate to 64 post debate
Opinion of McCain?
Favourable: - 51 unchanged
Big CNN win.
Palin is going to have to go into screaming harpy mode……
309. What, you mean “talking”?
307 Hardly a “score draw”. Goodnight all.
CNN poll completes whitewash for Obama - EVERY poll and EVERY focus group says Obama won. Some by miles.
Experts wrong again!
310 Yep - but full-on hockey mom!
The clip that will be played again and again? This one
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/that-one.html
Pug Munter: you will find other people listen to you more if you have even the slightest evidence of nuance in your posts.
When you talk about Obama’s “outrageous disregard”, you appear to be in the grip of an extreme case of cognitive dissonance.
Anyhow, I’m in Houston and just had dinner with the management of a large insurance company. The CEO told me that he’s (to use his own words) “Conservative Republican”, but that he was pretty shocked by the Palin pick. “You have to worry about what happens the day after you get elected.”
I’m sure he’ll vote for McCain anyway (he viewed Obama as likely to hand billions of dollars of tax payers money to dying American car makers), but it’s interesting to see how a certain portion of the Republican party (the Goldwater bit) thinks of Palin.
Cheers, Robert
306 — all the polls and focus groups are measuring responses of those actively watching which may favour Obama. Are these respondents typical of the American public? We’ll see in a month’s time, I suppose.
I think these polls are suggesting people have made up their minds. In my own view, Obama only won the debate very narrowly.
But the polls show an easy Obama win as people have decided they want him to win.
Obama now in to 1.27.
314 It wouldn’t have been quite as bad if McCain had referred to himself as “this one”. As it was, it just seemed like he missed out a word - it felt like he was saying “that uppity one….”
315 — too late. Bush and Congress have just given car makers a $25 billion bailout.
316. John L: all the polls and focus groups are measuring responses of those actively watching which may favour Obama.
And those who didn’t watch will have their responses affected more by the reporting of the debate than by the debate itself. It seems clear that Obama will again win the reporting more clearly than he won the debate itself.
Sorry CNN and MSNBC are in the tank for the Democratic party. And liberals get their news from these channels. Their viewers were always going to vote for Obama in droves.
Even if Obama stood up and admitted: ‘I’m an empty vessel - a celebrity politican with no idea about foreign policy, economics, or health care, and couldn’t careless about any of you.’ these idiots would still say Obama won the debate.
There’s a reason why the serious news networks don’t engage in these popularity contests with their core brainwashed viewers. You won’t see one of these pre-determined polls on Fox News minutes after the debate.
AOL Poll currently
Obama - 50%
McCain - 42%
and Drudge
McCain - 70%
Obama - 27%
316 Good point, John L. As Rod Crosby pointed out upthread, it’s the odd soundbite which will be carried on American breakfast TV.
The Pakistan exchanges may play badly over here and might create future embarrassment for the British government.
290 and much other horse-sh1t from Pug Munter.
Sonny, its way past your bed time. Get mummy to put you on the teet and then snuggle down with Winnie the Pooh and Rupert and let the grown-ups carry on the discussion.
God Bless and Nighty-night,
Uncle Malcolm
The CNN and CBS polls are not polls of CNN / CBS viewers.
They are proper opinion polls and they both show Obama won easily.
323 Drudge is really risking losing his reputation as a result of this election.
A lot of nonsense posted about McCain. Seems Obama has to be treated with “kid gloves” and undue deference, just because he’s half-black.
It’s almost as if some people think Obama has a right to a walkover election, just because of his background…
I don’t buy it, and doubt the American people do either…
322: You struggle with credibility when you use the phrase “serious news network” in the same sentence as Fox.
329 — interesting that Obama himself spoke tonight about the American Dream rather than the African-American struggle.
327. If you believe that you’ll believe anything. They are not proper opinion polls. They are a snapshot opinion of the views the network wants to represent.
328. I’ll trust Drudge over CNN/CBS/MSNBC any day of the week.
Obama now 1.26.
329. Rod, you’ll be able to get 4-1 against McCain in the morning.
325 The more important point about Pakistan is that it has virtually run out of foreign exchange reserves. Who is going to extract the delivery of Osama bin Laden in return for topping them up? Guess who! McCain’s only hope - that Bush buys Osama’s capture.
Night all
Obama now 1.25. Shortening rapidly.
1.25 is far too short based on a few liberal post-debate polls. A fool and his money…
Intrade at 72 now, roughly equivalent to 1.28 (on a 108.5% market).
Fox News poll who won the debate?:
McCain: 86%
Obama: 12%
Undecided: 1%
In line with Drudge. These numbers are much more credible than the rubbish that was posted earlier.
339 You poor silly b…
No, of course, this is all wonderful irony. So pat on the back for being so funny, and you can stay up another five minutes.
Be good, now
Uncle Malcolm
What a fun few days in my hometown! Barack Obama prepared for tonight’s debate in Asheville, and the whole town was on Cloud Nine! He drew 28,000 at a rally Sunday (not bad for a town of 70,000 people! Do you participate in rallies when a candidate comes to a town near you, or do you just hear about it on the news?
You can vote in my poll regarding who you think won the debate tonight at peoplepowergranny.blogspot.com
Everything written by Pug Munter
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
277 Me too, David. Seems we were right to opt for a night’s sleep.
If McCain did not win convincingly, Obama won. That seems to be the conclusion reflected in the betting markets.
He has only to run down the clock now and his record from the Primaries indicates he is good at that.
339 Pug
It’s a voodoo poll. It was exactly the same with the first debate. Have you learned nothing from visiting this Site?